Her Side of the Trail Podcast – Trails That Rock

What Goes Into Trail Design? Landscape Architect Sarah Walter Explains It All

Lauren Stites — Tue, 12 May 2026 10:30:00 +0000

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The Trail Design Process

Have you ever walked along a hiking trail and wondered why the designer chose to go a certain way? Whether it was straight up the mountain or multiple switchbacks, there is a method to a trail designer’s madness, and Sarah Walter talks about it on Season 2 Episode 10 of Her Side of the Trail.

Sarah her backstory of how she got into the trail design business. She also speaks about what goes into designing Universal Access Trails and how they differ from ADA accessible trails.

If you are interested in more of what Sarah’s company, Penn Trails, can do, visit their website or reach out to her on social media.

What We Talk About This Episode

[00:01:23] Childhood Outdoors: Sarah describes how she would spend time outside as a child

[00:03:09] A Career in Trail Design: Sarah shares her journey becoming a landscape architect and trail designer.

[00:06:10] Trail Design Timeline: Sarah talks about how long the trail design process, from idea to finalized, can take.

[00:07:32] Split Responsibilities: Sarah shares who is responsible during the entire trail design and building process.

[00:08:11] Planning the Route: Sarah describes the multiple considerations when designing where a trail will go.

[0011:16] Universal Trails vs Accessible Trails: Sarah shares the differences between Universal Access Trails and ADA Accessible Trails

[0015:13] Difficulties in Universal Trails: Sarah discusses some of the limiting factors in designing Universal Access Trails

[00:17:34] Writing the UAT Guide: Sarah talks about why she and the founder of Penn Trails wrote the Universal Access Trails guide.

[00:19:09] Problems on Projects: Sarah shares some of the “unforeseen circumstances” she’s encountered while designing and implementing a trail.

[00:22:09] Trail Difficulty: Sarah talks about how she doesn’t design a trail to meet a specific difficulty level.

[00:26:03] Current Projects: Sarah discusses what she works on during the winter months.

[00:28:10] Design Locations: Sarah describes where in the United States she has worked on designing trails

[00:30:27] Sarah on the Trail: Sarah shares what kind of trails you’ll find her on during her free time.

Sarah Walter (00:00)
But one case where this did happen was like, it was.

⁓ property lines actually were, it was hard for me to tell where they were and we didn’t have a survey, it was a private landowner, they opted not to get a survey. and I had aligned the trail in a certain way thinking the property line was like pretty far away and it was a crux point, right? It was like I had to snake some turns through the steep area and it turned out that I was over the property line by…

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (00:08)
⁓ yeah.

Mm-hmm.

⁓

Sarah Walter (00:25)
by some distance and luckily we caught it before things progressed. But I did have to do some tricky things with the turn. We had a tight space to kind of get the trail down the hill.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (00:43)
If you’ve ever been out on a hiking trail and wondered why did they design the trail this way, this episode is for you.

this episode, I’m speaking with Sarah Walter, who is a landscape architect and trail designer. She goes into the full process of planning, implementing, and finalizing the trail. I found this very interesting and have a new appreciation behind trail design, and I hope you do too. So let’s get into it.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (01:07)
hi, Sarah. Thank you for joining me today. I’m so excited to talk to you about trail design. Like every hiker needs to know the process that goes into this. So I really appreciate you being here talking to me about that. How are you doing today?

Sarah Walter (01:20)
I’m good. Thank you so much for having me. I’m excited to be here.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (01:23)
Yay. I usually ask this of everyone just because I’m always curious about what brings people to the outdoors. But did you grow up in an outdoorsy family? Were you out hiking a lot? Or is that something that you developed later in life, your love of the outdoors?

Sarah Walter (01:38)
say that I grew up in an outdoorsy family. I mean a little bit. Yeah, I mean a little. Like not as a family. But like my dad took me canoeing when I was a kid and I spent a lot of time outside. Like I was always out there. I was an only child so I was always out like playing imaginary games and you know making little shelters out of sticks and ⁓ climbing trees. Yeah and my dad collected rocks and so he introduced me to that. like geology and

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (01:44)
Yeah

Yeah, that counts! Gotcha.

climbing trees.

That’s cool.

Sarah Walter (02:07)
I was always really into animals ⁓ and wildlife and biology and that kind of stuff. So that was my interest. And then later, like later in high school, I got more into like canoeing, hiking, a little more outdoor adventure type stuff. Yeah, yeah. But I would say an appreciation of nature from a very young age. Yeah, totally.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (02:22)
Gotcha, gotcha.

of course. Yeah. I would think to do

what you do, you would have to have that like innately. Yeah.

Sarah Walter (02:32)
Yeah, and I, it’s funny, I always say like, one of my goals when I design trails is to help people see what I see out there, you know, because I’m always looking at little, I mean, little goofy details, know, funny shaped trees or a rock or just something. And I know a lot of people don’t see that stuff. So I want to help them, you know, see it how I see it.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (02:40)
I love that, yes.

Yeah!

There’s a park in New Jersey, it’s called Sourland Mountain Preserve. I don’t know if you’ve ever been there, but there is a rock that literally looks like it’s eating a tree and the trail goes right by it. And I’m like, I know the trail design was like, people need to see this rock that’s eating the tree. So how did you get into trail design then?

Sarah Walter (03:09)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

That’s a really good question. So

I didn’t know that it existed, right, for most of my life. ⁓ And yeah, yeah, and like I said, I wasn’t really in a family that was traveling to do hiking, so I hadn’t been to trails out west or, you know, any other really iconic trails. ⁓ But then I actually was interested, it’s gonna be a long story, a longish story, so.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (03:20)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Why would you even think about it, right? Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

That’s fine.

Sarah Walter (03:42)
I was interested in being an architect because I come from an art background. I was doing

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (03:44)
Okay. Nice.

Sarah Walter (03:47)
art all through as a child, all through school. ⁓ Was interested in maybe going to art school but thought architecture might have a little more, like as many artists do, like stability, utility, which like, whatever. But that thought process you go through when you’re a kid or young. And ⁓ I attended kind of a summer arts program.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (03:55)
Stability to it maybe yeah

Yeah.

Sarah Walter (04:10)
was architecture and my instructor actually said, hey have you considered landscape architecture because a lot of the things you’re making have this more naturalistic quality to them and I was like that’s interesting no one had ever really shared that with me before and I looked into landscape architecture and I was really interested because it seemed like this combination of all my interests right it was like design and art and biology and geology and soils and topography and mapping it was like

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (04:26)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Walter (04:39)
All of these things. So I went to school for that, graduated in 2010, which was a horrible time to graduate and join the workforce. And so then my first kind of like real job out of school was in a planning office at the county level, working in conservation. So it was very meaningful work, but very administrative and bureaucratic. And I got bored.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (04:47)
gosh, ⁓

Sarah Walter (05:07)
with that, but I was there for about six years. I was there for quite some time. Yeah, it was a great learning, and I use a lot of that still today. I’m really grateful for that experience. And then someone I went to school with contacted me out of the blue and said, are you interested? Are you looking for a job? And I was like, not really, but what do you got? And she had been working on a temp basis for PennTrails, which is the company that I then went to work for.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (05:07)
Yeah, I could see that. Okay. So a good learning experience though too, right? Yeah.

That’s good.

Gotcha.

Sarah Walter (05:37)
She told me about it and I was like, what do you mean trail design is a thing? Like can do that, you know? So it was very eye-opening and it’s exposed me to this whole world which has now become my career. So yeah, yeah.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (05:48)
That’s incredible. I love that. And

very grateful for people who do what you do. Good. So I know this is probably like a multi part question, whatever, but I was wondering like, how long is the typical trail design process like from when you guys are

Sarah Walter (05:54)
thank you. It’s a joy. So I mean, I’m grateful that I can do

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (06:10)
being reached out to by whatever entity it is to when the trail is available for public use. About how long does that take? Is that a multi-year process, I assume.

Sarah Walter (06:20)
Yeah, it really varies and it depends on ⁓ so many factors. The complexity of the trail, the type of funding that would be involved, the ownership of the parcel. Like if it’s a private landowner, ⁓ it can be very fast, shockingly fast. Yeah, yeah, and mean sometimes private trails can be built to a much lower standard.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (06:34)
Mm-hmm. Yes, they don’t have all the red tape to go through. ⁓

Gotcha.

Sarah Walter (06:45)
⁓ But if it’s something that runs into environmental, a lot of environmental constraints like wetlands or if there’s bridges or structural elements or funding, sometimes these projects are multi-million dollar projects. So it takes, we have to phase it and it gets done over time. So usually the initial design process though, for me is like, I don’t know, four months, six months, sometimes eight months at the longest, depending on who’s reviewing it or if there’s community engagement involved.

But then from there, it can really vary to when it actually gets implemented. Yeah, it could be a year or two all the way to, I mean, know of trials that have taken 10 years to get built.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (07:26)
wow.

Yeah, that’s that’s crazy. Now, what role does your company then Penn Trails, as you mentioned, what are they responsible for? Just the design or do they do? Are they also part of like the construction of the trail or?

Sarah Walter (07:32)
Mm-hmm.

So I am sort of a design first, design focused firm. I mentioned that my background is in landscape architecture and that’s always, so the company’s been around since 2007. ⁓ But, well, and design has really always been the focus. ⁓ But we do take projects all the way through construction. when I’m not like a lot of other trail building, trail construction companies, ⁓ a lot of them focus on construction and the design.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (07:43)
Okay.

Yes.

Okay.

Sarah Walter (08:08)
ends up being sort of like a way to get to that. I’m not a contractor first, I am a designer first. And so I will take on sort of like special selected construction projects and I’ll assemble a crew to get them done. You know, if they fit kind of my goals and what I wanna do at the time, if it’s a good fit, yeah.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (08:11)
Okay.

Hmm.

Gotcha. Gotcha.

how do you decide the trail route? And I know that’s also a very loaded question, but is there a way for you to kind of condense that answer? Like, how do you decide which way the trail is going to go? know you like you touched on like environmental factors, things like that. Obviously, grade would have something to do with that, correct? Yeah.

Sarah Walter (08:43)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah, definitely. So the first step is to figure out what we’re trying to do, like what kind of experience we’re trying to create. And I do that through usually talking to the client, you know, some kind of stakeholder group, which might be like the owners or I think who else it would be. Like sometimes it’s like a board or a friends group or something like that. And then sometimes it’s a broader process of engaging with the public and asking what they want.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (08:57)
Okay.

Sarah Walter (09:16)
you know, to have on whatever the site is. And then from there, we can get a sense for how the trail should look and feel. So if we’re doing like a back country, single track trail, it can be more rugged, right? It can have more obstacles, it’s narrower, it can be steeper in places versus if I’m designing like a universal access trail, it tends to be wider, it needs to meet, you know, certain grade parameters. And so right away, then the next step is to go into the field.

⁓ and kind of start laying out what we call the corridor for this trail. And usually that’s like a 50 or 60 foot corridor, right? There’s like some like wiggle room where the actual trail alignment can go. ⁓ But sometimes it’s narrower. Like sometimes there might be some kind of feature that really limits where the trail can go, like a bridge crossing for example, or if we’re crossing wetlands or you know really steep slopes can kind of limit where you can go, or rock features, things like that. So

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (09:50)
Okay.

Okay.

Sarah Walter (10:15)
⁓ From there, then we get the corridor and that’s kind of a broad like swath of kind of where the trail can go. And then from there, it would be narrowed down and that might happen sort of in design or sort of as pre-construction flagging and that’s like narrowing it to like the trail is going here, you know?

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (10:32)
fun though. like, I always think about that when I’m on the trail. I’m like, what made them decide like to go this way, you know, versus, you know, this way or, or, or when to implement switchbacks and when to just make us go straight up the hill.

Sarah Walter (10:45)
Yeah, yeah, and there’s there’s give and take, right? Like I

don’t just lay out the trail based on the parameters. That just gives me a sense of how challenging it’ll be to get to different things. Like there’s definitely a part of every design process that is this sort of inventory and analysis and like ground truthing and scouting of the site where I’m looking for interesting things. Like, cause sometimes, sometimes the brief is very specific. It’s like, we want to loop around this lake, but sometimes it’s like,

we have 600 acres, where should we go? And then I’m kind of looking around for, what’s interesting on this property? What do I like? Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. The points of interest, things people would wanna see, things to make it an interesting experience.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (11:16)
Yeah.

Yeah, like if there’s like cute little like overlooks or something along the way or water features, things like that.

⁓ So you kind of touched on to the universal access trails and it seems like that is a, am I correct? I was looking at your website and it feels like that is a large focus of your firm, like to work on the accessible trails or.

Sarah Walter (11:43)
Yeah, yeah, I would say

we specialize in universal access trails. The founder and me co-wrote Universal Access Trails. It’s Trails for All People. Sorry, I got renamed in, I think, 2021. Trails for All People, which is a free guide for how to design parameters for these universal access trails. So yeah, it’s something I specialize in. But it’s not…

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (11:56)
Hehe

Sarah Walter (12:13)
bulk of what I do? I would say no. I design a pretty good mix of sort of more accessible trails and I do want to say for your audience that that is different from ADA trails or it’s not ADA at all. should say that’s different from the Americans with Disabilities Act. ⁓ But you might also hear them referred to as all-persons trails. A lot of people will also say accessible trails. So there’s different terminology. ⁓ I use universal access trails because that’s the name of the guide that we wrote.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (12:15)
Okay.

Gotcha.

Okay.

Now what is the difference when you say they’re not ADA? Is it because you don’t have to follow like a certain grade or anything like that? Because I know like the ADA, like if there’s a slope, there’s a certain grade you have to have.

Sarah Walter (12:41)
Yeah.

⁓ yeah.

That’s right. Yeah, so ADA ⁓ are federal guidelines that affect the design of built spaces, right? ⁓ And they just don’t exist for trails. The ADA, there’s no ADA rules for how trails should be built. And so the government, the federal government came out with these guidelines for like the forest service and for parks, parks properties, things like that.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (13:01)
Gotcha.

Gotcha. Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Sarah Walter (13:15)
the sort of governed trails outside of like the ADA regulatory environment. ⁓ And that’s what universal access trails also are. Like they’re the same guidelines, they’re just meant to apply to like municipalities, states, ⁓ and like land trust properties. Like any property that would be open to the public and have trails on it, there’s sort of a set of best management practices. Like no one is going to come and

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (13:25)
Gotcha. Okay.

Sarah Walter (13:41)
you know, say this trail meets, it’s not one standard, I guess I’ll say, like it’s kind of a spectrum and we try to incorporate as many of the best management practices as possible into the trail. I don’t wanna get too technical, but yeah, yeah. yeah. Not in Berks, I’ve been, is it in, ⁓ my gosh, Schoolkill County?

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (13:44)
Yeah. Okay.

No, no, I get that. get that. At in Hawk Mountain in Berks County. Have you been to Hawk Mountain in Berks County? They have. I don’t know if you’ve been there.

Sarah Walter (14:08)
Is there a different hawk mountain? ⁓ it might. Yeah, yeah, it’s Hawk Mountain. Yeah, I’ve been to Hawk Mountain. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (14:08)
I think. I thought they were in Berks County, but maybe they straddle, I don’t know. But it’s like it’s not far from reading, if that gives you an idea. OK, OK, OK. So they have the silhouette trail there

and they and they, you know, post like what the grade is and, know, the material that they use so people can again, it’s a universal access trail. So.

You know, I’m assuming again, it’s not, you know, it’s not the ADA standards, but I thought it was interesting that they had the grade like they’re like, this is the max grade of the trail, which I think was it’s a low. like 8 % or something like that. So, yeah.

Sarah Walter (14:43)
8%. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, and a big piece of that is also just communicating objectively what the trail looks and feels like, you know, because that helps people immediately understand, is this appropriate me?

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (14:54)
Yeah, it’s always good to know what to

Would you find that, do you find that planning like an accessible trail, universal access trail is more difficult than planning a regular like single track trail or is it, it’s all the same. It’s all the same kind of ⁓ amount of planning and that goes into it.

Sarah Walter (15:13)
It can be more difficult. It can be more difficult to have a site that’s compatible. ⁓ You know, often you get into steep slopes and it’s just not really feasible. So I think looking at a site and understanding like this is a ⁓ site for it that’s conducive to universal access is the first step, right? Like you wanna pick a place that has, you know, something that’s worth going to, you know, for one, like.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (15:18)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yes.

Sarah Walter (15:42)
I

don’t, I see a lot of places putting in kind of like universal access trails that just are kind of boring, right? They don’t really go to the thing. And those might not be, like, it’s good to have those, have opportunities just to get outside and exercise. But I think we should also be providing like real meaningful outdoor sort of adventure experiences that are still accessible for people with mobility disabilities, right?

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (15:50)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

love that you said that, well, because I had on my previous season a woman, her name’s Jennifer Allen, her son has spina bifida and they do a lot of hiking together. So, you know, she has to find all these trails and she was talking about how one of them she thought would lead to a waterfall and it still didn’t lead to the waterfall. It got nowhere near the waterfall. And so, you know, everyone was disappointed because they thought they had the expectation that they would still get to see the waterfall on it. And the trail went nowhere near there. So.

Sarah Walter (16:14)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah,

and that’s such a disappointment, right? Especially if you have like a mobility device and you might have traveled like, I don’t know, an hour or more to get to a site and then to get unloaded. And you know, if there’s not a bathroom or the trail is damaged and you can’t get to whatever the thing is or there’s not even anything there, I mean, it can be really disappointing. And there aren’t necessarily other options like to just, ⁓ we’ll do something else. so I think…

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (16:36)
Yes.

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

No.

Yeah, yeah, that’s their

only option, yeah.

Sarah Walter (17:01)
Yeah, yeah, so I think kind of really putting in that thought about what beyond just like the physical shape and layout of the trail, like, is this a meaningful experience, you know, for people who need this type of experience?

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (17:14)
So you did

touch on the guide that you wrote with Larry Knutson, who he was he’s the founder of Penn Trails. But now you are the owner of Penn Trails. Correct. Yes. And you guys, he started the guide and then you, guess, ⁓ updated it with him. Correct.

Sarah Walter (17:20)
Yes, that’s correct. Yeah.

Yeah,

yeah, he’s I think the first edition came out in 2014 and that was funded by Pennsylvania DCNR and we can serve PA formerly the PA Land Trust Association at the time and then we put out another edition I want to say in 2021 it was a few years ago now maybe 2022 but it’s free online so that’s that’s the nice thing about it.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (17:34)
Okay.

Yeah, that’s well,

that’s all I want to comment on because I love that you did provide this information free for everyone. And so why why was that so important for you and Larry to make sure that this information was available to everybody?

Sarah Walter (17:57)
you

I think that was more a function of the funding source honestly was was ⁓ PALTA or now WCPA we can serve PA recognized kind of this void in guidance ⁓ They do a lot of work with land trusts as you know, they’re formerly the PA land trust Association So that’s who forms their membership is land trusts and Pennsylvania has a really unique land trust environment ⁓ It might have the most land trusts of any state. I don’t like quote me on that, but I know it’s a

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (18:08)
Okay. ⁓

⁓ wow, I didn’t know that.

Sarah Walter (18:34)
There’s a lot of land trusts

a lot of them own land and they open it to the public. Like they open up preserves or conserves, they might call them. And so there was kind of this need for guidance related to how do we like provide access, broad access to, you know, as big of an audience as possible. Like how far does ADA apply into the property? Like beyond the parking lot? Do we need to be meeting ADA?

guidelines, not guidelines, but ADA regulations on our trails, you know, so they they saw the need for that ⁓ and luckily DCNR agreed to fund it.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (19:09)
I’m gonna switch gears here. Just any of the projects that you’ve been working on or you’ve worked on in the past, have there, has there been any kind of like difficulties designing the trail, whether maybe the environment wasn’t as conducive to the trail as maybe you first imagined it to be? I’ve been on trails where I feel like they’re like cutting through rocks and stuff like that. Like have you encountered any?

Sarah Walter (19:31)
Mm-hmm.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (19:33)
Any projects like that where… Yes. I’m sure.

Sarah Walter (19:35)
Unforeseen circumstances. Yeah. I mean, all the time, like we just can’t,

we just can’t predict everything. And so ⁓ something I’ve learned, you know, not coming from a construction background. And I really believe this is that every construction project involves some element of design build. ⁓ You can’t, even a building that has full set of architecture drawings, you just can’t foresee every.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (19:56)
Yes.

Yeah.

Sarah Walter (20:04)
So

yeah, I mean all the time we run into rocks or we run into, I don’t know, all different things. Seaps, know, water is a big one. And the key is just leaving that flexibility and kind of thinking ahead to what the uncertainties might be and how you might deal with them.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (20:13)
yeah.

Sarah Walter (20:26)
But one case where this did happen was like, it was.

⁓ property lines actually were, it was hard for me to tell where they were and we didn’t have a survey, it was a private landowner, they opted not to get a survey. ⁓ And there were no posted signs on their property and I had aligned the trail in a certain way thinking the property line was like pretty far away and it was a crux point, right? It was like I had to snake some turns through the steep area and it turned out that I was over the property line by…

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (20:35)
⁓ yeah.

Mm-hmm.

⁓

Sarah Walter (20:57)
by some distance and luckily we caught it before things progressed. But I did have to do some tricky things with the turn. We had a tight space to kind of get the trail down the hill. yeah, things like that. It just happens.

Bedrock is always there. CEPES are always there, like I said. and anything with…

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (21:14)
Yeah. Yeah.

Sarah Walter (21:18)
wetlands or like as you get into more complex projects that require like ⁓ endangered species surveys and things like this. Like there’s always things like that that can affect ⁓ what actually gets built.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (21:30)
Do,

like don’t go by this home of like nesting birds or whatever, you know, like, yeah.

Sarah Walter (21:34)
Yeah, yeah, yeah,

yeah, yeah, and that’s so looking at ⁓ things after the fact, like any built feature, but trails also, like people always ask me like, you just can’t look at trails the same ever again. And the answer is no, I can’t, but ⁓ it’s easy to look at it and be critical, right? Like, this is too steep, they should have done this, they should have done that. Yeah, yeah, and you just can never know like what came up through the process. So that’s a, you know, it’s an exciting part, I think.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (21:54)
Yeah, like, why’d she loop this so tight? Well, it’s against the property line.

Yeah.

Sarah Walter (22:04)
to see ⁓ how the final thing gets built.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (22:09)
Now do you think about difficulty level too when you’re designing a trail? Like, does someone say to you, I really, I want to design a hard trail here or a ⁓ moderate trail? Like, do they come up to you for that or is it just, it just is what it is when it’s done?

Sarah Walter (22:24)
Yeah, and I think people have the misconception that a difficult trail can just be steep. And that used to be the case, you know, here in the northeast. And like a lot of legacy trails, right, or just kind of straight up that I’m sure you’ve been on trails, like many of these types of trails.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (22:31)
Yeah. Yeah.

⁓

the East Coast here, we just love our straight up the mountain, yes.

Sarah Walter (22:43)
Yeah, yeah, that kind of classic Adirondack experience. ⁓

And we’ve just moved away from that as an industry, right? We have sort of sustainability guidelines now that actually are not that far off from accessible trail guidelines, right? We want to be keeping trails ⁓ gentle running grades because the steeper they get, the more water is going to run down them. Yeah, and you’ve seen this. I you’ve seen trails that are just gullies. ⁓ You want to…

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (22:57)
Okay.

water.

Or they like after

the fact add the logs to try to like direct the water off the trail.

Sarah Walter (23:15)
Exactly.

Yeah, and I really don’t like seeing those. They’re just not great. know, like anytime you’re channelizing water, you’re just speeding it up and creating erosion. we’ve really moved away from kind of trying to make steep ⁓ trails and this focus on sustainability is ⁓ really just a focus in the industry. ⁓ So we want to keep them this general running grade. We want to incorporate ⁓ grade dips to…

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (23:21)
No.

Yeah.

Sarah Walter (23:44)
to let water drain off the side of the trail. ⁓ And you can incorporate difficulty in other ways. And you can have higher density of steeper parts, sort of steeper parts. You can leave obstacles in the trail, like rocks and logs and things like that. ⁓ that’s where I like to see difficulty get added. And then also just the distance of the trail or the narrowness. There’s different things that can change it from being a more social experience to a more kind of like.

I’m taking risks, I’m navigating, I’m like way out here in the wilderness, you know, that kind of thing. those like, but I think it’s more about like environmental cues or just like sight lines and ⁓ how much you have to pick up your feet, you know, ⁓ rather than it being about like, yeah, yeah. And then where it has to be steep, I think we like to build steps now, you know, more, more so. I know a lot of hikers don’t like steps, but they really are inefficient.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (24:18)
Gotcha.

In Pennsylvania all the time.

Yes.

Sarah Walter (24:43)
effective way to armor and protect steep, steep sections of trail.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (24:49)
My kids always laugh at me because I swear almost every single trail we get on there’s some kind of steps that they’re like, of course there’s steps. The worst one that we did was in the Great Smoky Mountain National Park. It was the Chimney Rock Trail and it was just steps after steps after steps. And they’re like, are we there yet? I’m like, I’m sorry. I didn’t realize there’d be so many steps.

Sarah Walter (24:55)
Yes.

Okay. Yeah.

Yeah,

yeah, it’s hard as a hiker, but I think once you’ve built trail and especially repaired damaged trail, you gain an appreciation, yeah, for what those steps are doing to protect it.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (25:18)
Yeah, you understand. Yeah. I always

appreciate the stone steps because I’m like someone had to move all those stones and build. I’m sure that is like a process.

Sarah Walter (25:32)
Tell me about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we’ve built some. mean, like I said, I’m not a construction focus company. I’ve worked a little bit on crews that do do that, and it’s hand work. ⁓ Whenever I do steps, I try to do it where I can get a machine in so that we can have machine assist. ⁓ But it’s a lot of work. It just is. There’s no way around it. And if you’re mining the rock on site, that adds a whole other element. It’s dangerous. It takes its toll on the people who do it. So if you see the trail builder.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (25:37)
No.

It ⁓

I’m sure it does.

Sarah Walter (26:01)
Thank them. They work really hard.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (26:03)
Always. I have seen people who have not built the trail, but maintain the trail. And I’m always like, thank you so much for doing this. So are there ⁓ any projects that you’ve I know it’s winter right now as we’re speaking. So we just had snow and whatnot. ⁓ Are there any projects that you are currently working on right now that you’re be kind of implementing like, you know, in the spring or summer? Or are you kind of on a hiatus right now? What are you doing?

Sarah Walter (26:09)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mostly in the winter, kind of hold a lot of desktop work. ⁓ I was hoping to get out for some site work. Let’s see, in Pittsburgh. And then I have a project local to me also here in Western Maryland where I live. ⁓ But the ground conditions have not been conducive to that at all since basically December 1st. So that’s just on hold.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (26:50)
No.

It’s been awful,

Sarah Walter (26:54)
Yeah,

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (26:54)
ugh.

Sarah Walter (26:54)
usually I can get a little bit of site work in it. By site work, mean like scouting and flagging, that kind of thing. So no, mean, the construction season really starts, I don’t know, sometimes we’ve done some things in March or April, but May is usually, yeah, I like to do things in like May and June, which is another thing that’s different about me from like a more trail, a building focused company. Like they’re gonna be out as soon as they

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (26:58)
Yeah, yeah.

But even the grounds, even then a solid, right?

Sarah Walter (27:22)
I have the luxury of scheduling out ahead. So yeah, I do have a Universal Access project coming up, hopefully May and June. That’ll be about a month, five weeks. ⁓ And then after that, I’m not sure. Quite a bit of planning work is lined up. So I’ll be in the Adirondacks and then, like I said, Pittsburgh.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (27:23)
Yeah.

Very nice.

Sarah Walter (27:41)
And then have some more, some desktop work to catch up on too from the fall. So it’s cyclical like that. think, I think trail folks like that, but winter is just, yeah, it’s a quiet time. I mean, a lot of trail builders will like, I mean, if they can’t build, they’ll join ski patrol or they’ll travel and ski and do things like that, winter sports. Yeah.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (27:51)
The quiet time.

That sounds like fun. Now, do you

do most of your work in the Northeast? do you kind of maintain that area or have you gone all across the country?

Sarah Walter (28:10)
For the most part, Northeast, Pennsylvania, New York are the biggest states where I have projects. I have done work in Texas, Illinois, Wyoming, like I said, Delaware, Maryland. I will go anywhere. But most of my work is Pennsylvania, New York.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (28:29)
No.

Are you, I guess, like, are you more comfortable than designing, like, because, you know, it’s different terrains, different environments. Are you more comfortable than with like Pennsylvania, New York, or are you okay to switch to Texas and. ⁓

Sarah Walter (28:44)
That was okay, yeah, I mean it was different. It’s just, you know, in getting a sense of the terrain and the geology on that particular site was really interesting. There were kind of these bands of stone. But the principles are the same, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I do like being exposed to different places, because I think ⁓ they require different solutions and they require creativity and it’s really…

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (28:59)
No matter what, yeah.

Yeah, use your brain a

little bit more, right? Definitely, yeah.

Sarah Walter (29:12)
Yeah, yeah, and it’s really easy to get into a rut. You know, and even

culturally, like working in different communities and seeing, you know, what’s important there ⁓ is really nice. And I like, ⁓ I think all of those travel projects have also been in relatively small communities. It’s not like I’m traveling to like the Great Smoky Mountains or, or, you know, Yellowstone or something like that to work on a trail, though that would be really cool. I

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (29:19)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, no, no.

That would be.

Sarah Walter (29:40)
I like working

on these sort of community centered projects. I think that’s really important.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (29:45)
like county trails or like small town, like parks, things like that.

Sarah Walter (29:48)
Yeah,

yeah, counties, land trusts or conservancies, things like that, ⁓ especially if they’re driven by the community. just when they’re for the local community, I really think we all deserve access to high quality recreational opportunities. We shouldn’t have to travel multiple states away to find those. yeah. Yeah.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (29:53)
Love that.

100%. Yes.

Yep, yep, I agree, I agree. Everyone outdoors, outdoors is for everybody. ⁓

So because even though you didn’t really kind of grow up hiking and doing all that, but now doing all this trail design, have you turned into a hiker or is that like the shoe, like the cobbler’s children have no shoes kind of thing? Like, are you like, no, I don’t want to see a trail when I’m not working.

Sarah Walter (30:27)
Yeah. I do

like to see trails. ⁓ I will say I have started as I’ve aged, which maybe is also strange, but to seek out other ways of being outside. So I picked up downhill skiing as an adult, whitewater kayaking. I got into mountain biking this last summer, and that’s a whole other part of the industry that I’m excited to learn more about. ⁓

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (30:53)
Yes, yes. My husband

mountain bikes and, you know, he he has his complaints about certain trails with that because he likes a lot of the the elements on the trails, you know, like the jumps and stuff like that. That’s what he wants.

Sarah Walter (31:01)
Yeah.

Yeah, and I think mountain bike

trails are so interesting because everything feels a little bit exaggerated. ⁓ Drainage is still really important, but you want those changes in grade and the way turns are built really impacts user experience. And then there’s all those opportunities to add fun little features. So ⁓ that’s gotten me out on way more trails. And the thing I love about it is I can see way more trail than if I were walking.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (31:12)
Yeah.

That’s fun!

Sarah Walter (31:34)
You know, I can see miles and miles in a day. So yeah, I’ve been really enjoying that and getting around and seeing different areas, different mountain bike trails in different areas. So yeah, it’s a big part of the industry. Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (31:35)
Yes. Yay.

That’s good. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah. And growing, I think, right? Like you said, it’s like more and more popular. ⁓

So one of the questions I always ask my guests and I feel like for you, I might I might word it a little differently, but I typically ask my guests like when they’re when they’re hiking, would they prefer to hike like if they only could do one kind of hike for the rest of their life, would they prefer to hike to like a view and overlook or like a water feature, like a waterfall? But for you, I’m like.

Do I ask you if you had to design a trail? Like, do you prefer designing them to overlooks or to like special features like waterfalls, lakes, things like that?

Sarah Walter (32:24)
such a good question. ⁓

I think more frequently I end up designing them to water features. And I think that’s a nature of where I work. You know Pennsylvania, like we don’t have very big hills. I haven’t designed a ton of overlook. That’s really interesting. ⁓ But I think as a hiker, I prefer overlook style trails. Yeah, I really enjoy that type of trail. I really enjoy. ⁓

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (32:31)
Okay.

Okay, that makes sense. Yep.

Gotcha.

Sarah Walter (32:50)
trails with some challenge, like ⁓ maybe some rock scrambling. I’m sure you’ve done those trails that have the wires so that you can hoist yourself up and stuff. I really like bordering on rock climbing. I’m not a rock climber. ⁓ But those types of trails, I love to just wander. This is probably from when I was a kid. I didn’t spend a lot of time on trails, but I did spend a ton of time wandering around in the woods, and that’s what I do as a job now.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (32:51)
Mm-hmm, same.

Mm-hmm.

you

Yeah.

Sarah Walter (33:18)
I still really like that. I just like kind bushwhacking and exploring and seeing all the weird stuff that’s in the woods. ⁓ But I think overlooks, if I had to pick, I would like to design more of those. Yeah.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (33:30)
Okay. Yeah, there’s no wrong answer as far as I’m concerned. To me it’s like, what day

of the week is it? What am I in the mood for, you know?

Sarah Walter (33:37)
Yeah, I’ve always just loved

⁓ landscapes where you feel really small or where I feel really small and I feel like that’s also unique to like the West or we don’t have a ton of that in the Northeast. ⁓

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (33:42)
Yes.

No, but you can still, like

there are some times where you’re just at the top and you’re like, wow, like look at everything out there.

Sarah Walter (33:54)
Yeah, there are some

good ones over like next door to me in West Virginia, like some just gorgeous scenic overlooks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fantastic. Good stuff.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (33:58)
Mm-hmm. I love West Virginia. like

hiking there. Any opportunity that we can. We can’t always get there, but when we can, I’m like, let’s go to West Virginia. And New York, too, I think has some incredible hikes. New York is, people don’t always think about that, but they do. Even down like in the Hudson Valley and stuff like that.

Sarah Walter (34:07)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, New York really does.

The Hudson Valley,

yeah, yeah, yeah. I was lucky, fortunate to work on a trail crew kind of in the Hudson Valley. And ⁓ that’s just beautiful. We were there in the fall and it was stunning. Yeah.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (34:27)
So, so gorgeous. Yes, yes.

But all right, so if anyone wanted to hire you to design a trail, where would they find you?

Sarah Walter (34:36)
⁓

Sure, ⁓ I’m on the internet at www.penntrails.com You can also find pentrails on Instagram and Facebook though. I don’t update I’m not very active, but you can find me personally on Instagram at at shovel ready, Sarah. That’s my personal Instagram so ⁓ And yeah, there’s a phone number on the website. There’s a I think you can like fill out a web form and will send me an email So that’s the best way. Yeah

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (34:47)
Yeah

Okay.

That’s awesome. Well,

Sarah, thank you so much for being here, sharing your experience, designing trails, giving us a definite appreciation for the process behind the trail design. So when we’re out there, we can be like, hmm, did they have to worry about, you know, borders and ⁓ whatnot? But. Yes.

Sarah Walter (35:14)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, my gosh. Yeah, you bet. Thank you so much for having me Lauren. It’s been a pleasure.

Day Hiker to Solo Backpacker: Emily Zarnow Shares Her Hiking Experiences

Lauren Stites — Tue, 28 Apr 2026 10:00:00 +0000

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APPLE | SPOTIFY | YOUTUBE

Day Hiker to Solo Backpacker

No one starts out as a solo backpacker! It’s a transition, starting with day hiking and eventually testing yourself to see if you can last a night or two alone on the trail.

Emily Zarnow shares her experience on Season 2 Episode 9 of Her Side of the Trail. She talks about her first backpacking experience (and making her husband carry the cooler backpack!) to tackling Mount Whitney with her brother.

Emily is a great resource for backpacking in California. Her website, Hikeology-LA has information about trails and gear.

What We Talk About This Episode

[00:02:19] Childhood Exploration: Emily describes the time she’d spend outdoors exploring her neighborhood

[00:03:35] Camp Counselor: Emily reflects on her time as a summer camp counselor and how that set her up as a future backpacker

[00:05:11] First Backpacking Trip: Emily laughs about how unprepared she was for her first overnight backpacking experience

[00:08:52] Why Backpacking Appeals: Emily shares what about backpacking appealed to her

[00:10:36] Why Go Solo: Emily talks about the decision to start backpacking solo

[00:12:42] First Solo Trip: Emily discusses her first backpacking trip, including planning, logistics, and unexpected issues

[00:17:51] California Backpacking Trails: Emily shares some of her favorite trails that she’s backpacked solo on in California

[00:20:02] Conquering Mount Whitney: Emily tells the tale of how she and her brother summited Mount Whitney

[00:25:10] Preparing For Higher Elevations: Emily discusses the training she did near Southern California prior to hiking Mount Whitney

[00:32:12] Starting Hikeology: Emily shares her reasoning for starting her website, Hikeology-LA

Emily Zarnow (00:00)
I got to the point where I was like, I feel like I just need to get back out there and do this by myself. And I think growing up and kind of referencing back to the days that I would go back in my creek and I would just explore all by myself and no one knew where I was. Didn’t have a GPS tracker, didn’t have anything like that. But there was something really, really beautiful about that, just spending time with myself and kind of having those more reflective, quiet moments.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (00:15)
Mm-hmm.

now.

Emily Zarnow (00:29)
that I think I was just really hungry for again and realizing that I wanted something that was gonna kind of challenge myself and get myself out of my comfort zone.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (00:45)
This episode, I’m speaking with Emily Zarnow.

Emily shares her story about transitioning from day hiker to backpacker and then eventually solo backpacker. Emily has hiked all over California and she shares some of her favorite trails this episode. So let’s get into it.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (01:00)
hi Emily. Thank you for joining me today. I’m so glad to have you here to talk about backpacking and like solo backpacking specifically. How’s everything going?

Emily Zarnow (01:10)
Good, good, I’m so excited to be here. Thank you for taking the time to have me on.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (01:15)
Yeah, I can’t wait. love talking about hiking, obviously. So, you know. So where are you located?

Emily Zarnow (01:17)
I know. What else is there?

Yeah, I’m actually in Los Angeles, California. Yeah.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (01:26)
nice. Okay.

Do you do a lot of I guess there’s a lot of great hiking right there. I always see some really beautiful trails around the mountains there.

Emily Zarnow (01:32)
Yeah, yeah.

That’s the great thing I’ve come to really love about living in Los Angeles that I think was very unexpected to me when I moved here 15 years ago was just like you still have this very urban, you know, city life, but half hour from where I live, I can get up into the mountains and like Angeles National Forest and Big Bear and all that kind of stuff. So it’s really great place to be.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (01:58)
Now, growing up, were you an outdoorsy person? Did you guys get out hiking a lot or camping or things like that?

Emily Zarnow (02:05)
Yeah, I mean, it’s funny. I don’t think at the time when I was younger, I thought of myself as like particularly outdoorsy. I grew up in Ohio, where I live…

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (02:18)
It’s nice place though, lots of

good parks there.

Emily Zarnow (02:19)
Yeah, yeah, great.

Again, it’s like one of those things that you didn’t really realize that I had until I left. ⁓ And when I was younger, we lived in Atlanta, Georgia. So there was like lot of beautiful ⁓ Midwestern, Southern areas that like we could go out and get into the forests or lakes and things like that. ⁓

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (02:35)
Mm-hmm.

Emily Zarnow (02:36)
Um, I explored a lot, like by myself, we had a creek in our backyard in middle school and like, loved, yeah, it was amazing. I just loved going back there and I would always take my camera with me and I was always kind of shooting and, you know, making forts and like trying to catch fish and tadpoles with my hands. Just things like that, that I don’t think I was thinking of myself as like, I’m an outdoorsy person. was just me like, expressing my, yeah, imagination and all of that. But.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (02:42)
how fun is that?

Yeah, yeah. But naturally you just were. Yeah.

Emily Zarnow (03:04)
I was a camp counselor for about seven years at a YMCA camp down in Burlington, Kentucky, which is just like right over the river from Cincinnati, Ohio. Yeah. So, and again, it was one of those things where working at a camp, I don’t think I was like, this is outdoorsy. It was just a part of like every summer what I did. But I think it was definitely like a catalyst for things to come ⁓ in the future for sure.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (03:13)
Yeah.

Now you

did a lot of day hiking. That’s what I like to do. I like the day hiking because I like to come home and be in my nice comfy bed when I’m all done for the day. ⁓ And that’s kind of how you started out, right, with all your hiking. then you transition. Then you’re like, I’m going to try backpacking. And when did you start doing that then?

Emily Zarnow (03:35)
Yeah.

Yeah.

I did.

It was kind of a happy accident. And like I said, when I was a camp counselor, it’s so funny because it was all just nothing. We didn’t think twice about anything. We were just like, this is what we’re doing. And so when I was working at the summer camp, every week, once a week, we would take our kids out. Because it was like a weekly sort of segment with the kids. And we would take our kids out. There would always be an overnight camp trip.

⁓ And we wouldn’t like necessarily like load our packs up and carry our gear, but we would, you know, we would carry, literally like carrying our sleeping bags in our pillows, like in our hands or like shoving what we had. Yeah, yeah, wasn’t like miles and miles, but we would go out to a little bit more of like a secluded area of the camp. And we would literally just like cowboy camp.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (04:20)
Okay.

Like you’re walking to your sleepover. ⁓

Emily Zarnow (04:44)
pitching a tent was not something that was like on our radars. It was just a funny experience and thinking about that in the same way as like now I’m like, wow, cowboy camping? Like that’s a whole other level that I still feel like I need to get back to. Yeah, yeah. We’d start a fire from scratch and we do all those things. And again, I don’t think it was something that I was really thinking about at the time, but that was definitely some good preparation for what was to come.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (04:54)
But what a fun experience for the kids too to do. yeah.

Emily Zarnow (05:11)
Like I think technically my first backpacking trip was probably, I was probably like not that long after I moved out here. I don’t know if you’re familiar with Hip Camp. They’re an app that you can find different like campsites and book campsites. Yeah, yeah. So they, when they were first getting off the ground, and I think they might still do this, but they were, they would hire field scout photographers. And so basically,

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (05:24)
No.

yeah, no, yes. Okay,

Emily Zarnow (05:38)
what it was was a way to get people who were maybe in the creative field or in photography to go out to their different locations and take like a little bit more like aesthetic photos just to get the listings feeling a little bit more enticing. ⁓ And so one of my assignments was this place in Angeles National Forest, which I was mentioning earlier isn’t too far from here.

And it’s this cool, like, historic camp that’s located out there, but it’s a hike in. You have to take all of your stuff with you. And they have, little cabins, and they have, like, a mess hall and some other, like, fun things there on the, ⁓ on the location. But that was a first for me, especially in Los Angeles, like, in the real mountainscape, like, definitely different from, what I was doing, you know, growing up in Ohio. So, I, I was like, I really wanted

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (06:08)
Okay.

Emily Zarnow (06:31)
I really want to shoot this place. It’s like beautiful, but again, it’s like hiking four miles, I think up to the trail, up the trail to this location. But I didn’t have, I had like a 35 or like 40 liter backpack I had, and that was about it. Like I didn’t have any, I didn’t have any backpacking gear. But I was like, we can do this, it’s fine. And so naively, you know, just put everything we had into that backpack. And then as far as food, I wasn’t really savvy or like in the know about like,

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (06:37)
Okay.

Okay.

But yeah.

Emily Zarnow (07:01)
dehydrated meals or lightweight gear, anything like that. And so I literally had my husband carry a cooler pack, basically. So I was like, we have put our food. And it was like fresh food. I was like, we’re going to bring zucchinis. We’re going to bring hamburger meat. it was all, yeah. We weren’t like, you know, it’s still pretty close to home. So if all else failed, like we could have failed very easily. I.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (07:02)
Mm-hmm.

At it was, you said it was just four miles, right? So, not bad.

Emily Zarnow (07:28)
Looking back on that, I’m like, oh my gosh, like the things that I was just like, we’re just going to do this. Like, it’s fine. I didn’t really think twice about it. But it was a really, really cool experience. And like, once we got up there, they had running water and they had like a communal fire pit and all this, all this neat stuff. it was just kind of a magical experience being able to like wake up out there and then hike out was something that I wasn’t used to being such a day hiker and exploring.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (07:55)
Mm-hmm.

Emily Zarnow (07:56)
Los Angeles in particular on foot so much. So yeah, that was a really cool experience that kind of piqued my interest in like, wait, there could be more that we could be doing. it’s like, are there more areas in Angeles or in the Sierra or where can I go and kind of take this from here?

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (08:13)
I can see how that would do that though, because that does sound nice. Now, did you say you slept in a cabin or you did have a tent for that trip?

Emily Zarnow (08:14)
Yeah.

Yeah, so

we, yeah, we, didn’t have a tent and didn’t even have a backpacking tent at the time, so it wasn’t even possible, but. Yeah, exactly, Totally, so yeah, we, we’ve just brought some, I had a couple sleeping bags, but again, like not very heavy, like, so we just like stuffed them in the pack and they actually up there, they had like clean linens and things that you could put on these like thin mattresses that were on these.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (08:27)
Could have been like you were in camp, just carried along with you.

Yeah,

Emily Zarnow (08:48)
beds and

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (08:48)
yeah.

Emily Zarnow (08:49)
you know very very like summer camp style ⁓ but it was great yeah it was really it was really fun and that definitely got me thinking about like okay where else could I go what else could I do with this

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (08:52)
Gotcha, gotcha. That is some fun though.

what about that then really appealed to you? Was it the idea of trekking into a place that cars like most people can’t, don’t have access to? Was that it? Or was there something else about it that appealed to you that you wanted to do more?

Emily Zarnow (09:11)
Yeah.

Yeah, I think I loved exactly that. was like getting far enough into the mountains where it was like, it was very few and far between where we would see people. And just waking up and being out there. It was different than like just regular, you know, car camping. It felt like we had kind of achieved something too at the same time. There’s like a sense of accomplishment. And I…

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (09:26)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. definitely. Yeah.

Emily Zarnow (09:39)
I kind of love the chores that come along with backpacking. Like I love the process of, you know, getting things set up and like getting my pack all broken down and taking out, you know, everything and setting up my meals. Yeah. I think, I think it was a lot of that. And again, just being able to like stay out under the stars and not have to feel like I have to rush back or like, you know, be up so early that I’m, you know, wasting time. I just, I really enjoyed.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (09:50)
something meditative about that a little bit.

Emily Zarnow (10:08)
just being out there in kind of a way, in a way that I, especially in the proximity of Los Angeles, it feels like, how could I be, how could I be somewhere so quiet right now?

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (10:17)
somewhere like that

where it’s just mass chaos, people, traffic, everything. And then you found a magical spot where it’s quiet and you’re away from everybody. Yeah, I can understand why that’d be appealing to you.

Emily Zarnow (10:19)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Magic

will definitely sunset up for sure.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (10:30)
you were just saying you backpacked with your husband for that one trip, but you also started solo backpacking. What got you into that?

Emily Zarnow (10:36)
Yeah.

I, you know, so I love, you my husband obviously, but he does not have the same passion for back walking that I do. And I think, you know, me kind of throwing out ideas, he wasn’t as excited about going to these places or making the effort and like staying multiple nights. Like I think he enjoys like more of like a one night out and back, which I absolutely love as well.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (11:00)
Mm-hmm.

Emily Zarnow (11:05)
But there were just those trips that I was like, really want to do this and our schedules weren’t aligning or he just wasn’t interested and I would bail because I was like, I don’t have anyone to go with. And I don’t have a lot of friends here in Los Angeles who are still like interested in that. a lot of, the point in my life, a lot of my friends have like moved back to where they grew up. it’s, and friends that I do have that like to backpack are like scattered throughout California. So we’re like all on different schedules and.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (11:24)
Okay.

Emily Zarnow (11:33)
I got to the point where I was like, I feel like I just need to get back out there and do this by myself. And I think growing up and kind of referencing back to the days that I would go back in my creek and I would just explore all by myself and no one knew where I was. Didn’t have a GPS tracker, didn’t have anything like that. But there was something really, really beautiful about that, just spending time with myself and kind of having those more reflective, quiet moments.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (11:48)
Mm-hmm.

now.

Emily Zarnow (12:02)
that I think I was just really hungry for again and realizing that I wanted something that was gonna kind of challenge myself and get myself out of my comfort zone.

Because I think, again, especially when you have a partner, you’re with them all the time and it’s amazing that you can be with someone like that in your day to day, but we were very dependent on each other. It’s also just a way of like, it’s okay that we have some different interests and it’s okay if I go do things by myself and you do things by yourself.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (12:13)
Definitely, yeah.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Emily Zarnow (12:32)
we can still be happily married. You know? Yeah, you need your own things. Yeah.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (12:35)
⁓ yeah, no, you need that. You need that in a relationship. Yeah, definitely.

Where did you go for your first solo backpacking trip?

Emily Zarnow (12:42)
Yeah,

so I went, I did the Trans Catalina Trail, which was maybe a little bit of a bigger endeavor than I probably should have taken on as a first solo trip, because it’s a multi-night trip and it’s not. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I ended up only doing two, but yeah, usually people do three. You can extend it to be four or five, which would be really nice. But in the timeframe that I had, and we had some really bad storms right before that that had washed out like the last

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (12:55)
Mm Is that what like two to three nights? Right. Yeah.

Emily Zarnow (13:12)
section of trail, you’re familiar, like Parsons Landing, this like the beautiful area at the end. So I was just like, I’m gonna do these two nights and it’s a lot of logistical preparation. So like you have to book all your campsites and you have to book a ferry because it’s, know, so many miles. Yeah, yeah. Which was really fun, but it was definitely a lot to undertake. It’s like, oh, doing this on my own. Yeah, yeah. But I had built up

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (13:29)
Because it’s an island.

Especially for a first trip.

Emily Zarnow (13:41)
And I was trying, like the year before that, I knew I wanted to make it a goal. And it was actually really recently. It was only in 2024 that I had taken that first trip by myself. So in 2023, I purposefully like planned some group backpacking trips up in the Sierra. And I did like a half dome trip with a group, a guided group, because I just wanted to like feel like I had someone that I could lean on for questions and.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (14:09)
Mm-hmm.

Emily Zarnow (14:10)
and just making sure that I felt really comfortable. And I think after doing those trips, I was like, okay, like I can do this by myself. ⁓ the beautiful thing about Catalina, it was just that there are these, there is infrastructure there and there’s roads and there’s bathrooms and there’s potable water at different ⁓ campsites and things like that. So you’re not, it’s completely like isolated.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (14:34)
That’s good, yeah. Yeah.

Emily Zarnow (14:37)
And a lot of people are out there doing it. And there’s also people on the island who are just recreating their bike riding, they’re doing other things. So I think there was like a sense of safety, I think in it for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I still see from where I was. Yeah. So there was something about that. Yeah, yeah, I could like, yeah, was, there was, there was something just nice about like that. And also, you know, I will say like at one point that was

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (14:46)
Mm-hmm. You knew you weren’t out in the wilderness like miles away from civilization. Yeah. Still had cell phone service. No.

Emily Zarnow (15:07)
that was difficult was I unexpectedly got my period while I was out there. Yeah, and being by myself was like, my God, like it was, it did feel like it was one of those trips where half the time I was like, how did I get myself into like the ferry ride was incredibly bumpy because we had a really big swell and a big storm like two days earlier. Everyone on the boat was like, ⁓ And then I got off and I like texted my mom and I was like, I.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (15:12)
no, yeah.

⁓

⁓ I know what that can be like, yes? ⁓

Emily Zarnow (15:37)
don’t know what I’m doing. Like, I don’t know what I’m doing. She’s like, just go, you’re fine. But that day with the first day of that trail is definitely a tough one. Like, you question yourself a lot, I think, and being alone was definitely making it harder because I had to like really push down those thoughts of like, just turn back. Like, you don’t need to do this. But yeah, after that first night, I fell asleep and I was like so happy to be asleep after such a long day. And I woke up in the middle of the night and I was like,

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (15:38)
⁓

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah.

Emily Zarnow (16:07)
my God, started my period and I had the worst cramps and I was just like, this is not, yeah, let’s go. And I wasn’t expecting it, so I had like nothing, like no feminine hygiene products with me. was just, so that’s why I was really grateful again to like have facilities nearby and there’s like the airport gift shop there on the island and of course I went there and they didn’t have anything, but I was able to at least like, the guy for some things to go.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (16:11)
You’re like, what great timing.

Ugh.

gonna say at least like some toilet

paper.

Emily Zarnow (16:34)
Yeah, was just like wanting to, was just like, get as much toilet

paper to stick it with you, like whatever you can do. But it was, again, it was like frustrating in the moment, but looking back on it, I was like, those were really great moments of like being, being by myself, having to rely on myself to kind of problem solve and figure out like, yeah, yeah, how I can get through this.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (16:48)
You know what you can accomplish on your own. Yeah. And you know what you’re capable

of, you know, and what you can, what you can tolerate, what you can do.

Emily Zarnow (16:53)
Yeah. Yeah. And that

trail’s beautiful. ⁓ And like you said, it didn’t feel like I was up in the Sierras or the Rockies, like really out there. The biggest thing I was actually worried about were the bison. I was more afraid of that. I think still I’m more afraid of that than like, I didn’t see the single one. I know everyone sees them. I didn’t see one. I just saw a lot of bison poo. I know. I was like, I wanted to see one from afar.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (17:08)
Mm hmm. I heard about the bison. I’m like bison in California.

That’s so disappointing.

Yeah,

Emily Zarnow (17:23)
Yeah, but.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (17:24)
that’s like I’ve been not the same thing, but I’ve been down in like southern Florida or like on the Gulf of Florida many times and I’ve yet to see a manatee in real life and I’m just so mad about that. So I feel yeah about getting mad about not seeing the bison. Yeah, so where are they? Come on. But that sounds that sounds like a great like first solo backpacking trip. So ⁓

Emily Zarnow (17:31)
Yeah. ⁓ yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, you want to see the wild ones. Like, was promised bison. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (17:51)
Where, I guess, what are some of the ones that you’ve done solo that you’ve really enjoyed that you would recommend to other people as a good solo backpacking trip?

Emily Zarnow (18:00)
Yeah, so since then, ⁓ again, I think that was like, that was a great like test for me that really made me feel a lot more confident. I was like, okay, I can do this. So then getting up to ⁓ the Sierras and that’s like my home, my home like big range. ⁓ So I absolutely love the Eastern Sierra up there. I, my first solo of…

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (18:09)
Mm-hmm.

Emily Zarnow (18:22)
there was ⁓ the Sabrina basin and I think I camped at Blue Lake and then just did some exploring around ⁓ some of the higher elevation lakes and things in the area and that was really great and I kind of planned that strategically too since that was my first

solo backpacking trip in the Sierra, I was like, okay, I’m gonna go to a trail that I’ve done before. So I know where I’m going. I feel like comfortable on the trail. know how to park. I know where to go. There was no anxiety. Yeah, the only thing I had to worry about was just like hiking. ⁓ So I definitely recommend that for people who are considering like, it is nice to have a little bit of like reconnaissance ahead of time. ⁓ But I think now that I feel a little bit more comfortable,

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (18:48)
That makes sense.

Mm-hmm. Parking’s always the big thing, yes.

Yeah.

Emily Zarnow (19:10)
I’ve been more open to just kind of getting out and exploring places I haven’t been before at all. ⁓ This last year I did, Paiute Pass, again, up in the Eastern Sierra, and that was great, and I was supposed to do like two, three nights up there. I was gonna hike over the pass and ⁓ camp up in the basin up there, but it ended up being this like,

crazy windstorm and it wasn’t forecasted. was, yeah, so I was like hiking along. I was feeling really good. And then it was just like crazy wind. And I was like, okay, we’re just gonna do it one night. We’re gonna stay down at Paiute Lake and just take it easy. But that was a rough one. And that was definitely another one of those like learning experiences, especially by yourself where like mentally it was very challenging to just not give up or like give in to.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (19:34)
⁓ no. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yes.

Emily Zarnow (20:00)
to the elements, I guess.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (20:02)
I want to shift gears a little bit about, ⁓ still talking about backpacking, but I was looking on your website, which we’ll also talk about, ⁓ and I was reading the story about how you and your brother did Mount Whitney, and I would love to hear about that, because that is a crazy awesome accomplishment.

Emily Zarnow (20:15)
Yeah.

Yeah,

that was like one of the highlights, think. Funny, it’s like one of the highlights of my life, think, so far. It was really, a really amazing experience. Yeah, it was beautiful. But I think it was funny because I, was, that was my first backpacking trip in the Eastern Sierra. And I think I was very naive about what I was getting into. I’d kind of like done some day hiking in the area, but I hadn’t, I never hiked above 11,000 feet.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (20:28)
I would say so.

Okay.

You know, yeah.

Emily Zarnow (20:50)
Yeah, like

I was just kind of in in over my head, but I think my night like my naivete was actually working as an advantage for me. Because I wasn’t worrying about these things But yeah, I in 20s, I think it was like 2017, I had been out in Sequoia on a camping trip with some of my girlfriends and we were we had like learned some things when we were there about the mountains and I like.

I don’t know how it taken me this long living in California to realize that the highest and lowest points in the contiguous United States are 80 miles from each other. And Mount Whitney was just such an interesting, it peaked to me. I just really wanted to set it as a goal ⁓ and a bucket list thing for myself. But I kind of went, I think I went back to Ohio for the holidays. My brother was there and.

we were just kind of teasing each other about hiking and whatever. And he was talking about how he climbed all these 14ers in Colorado. And I was like, well, if you want to climb the biggest, you have to come to California. And he was like, let’s do it. Yeah, exactly. ⁓ But I kind of just threw it out there in jest. Like, you know, we were just we were just kind of chit chatting about that. But it it stuck. then

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (21:53)
Mm-hmm.

And he said, challenge accepted.

Emily Zarnow (22:12)
I kind of put it out of my mind. I wasn’t really thinking about it. And I think it was either, it was either March or April when the, when it opens back up for the second time. ⁓ My brother texted me and he was like, ⁓ I got overnight permits for Mount Whitney, the end of June or the beginning of July, something like that. And I was like, what? Like, we’re doing this. yeah. But I was glad, like I was glad, it was great to have somebody just to like,

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (22:32)
I’m like, hold on, I didn’t agree to anything.

Emily Zarnow (22:41)
push you and be like, doing this. Like we’ve got each other. ⁓ and you know, my brother is definitely, ⁓ he likes to push his fitness in a different way than I do. He’s like very, very meticulous about it. So he’s definitely at a different, like level than I am athletically, but, ⁓ we made a pact. we got there that day and like, we made a pact. Like what we were going to do is like every 500 feet, we’ll take a little break. And every thousand feet of elevation, we will take.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (22:52)
Mm-hmm.

Emily Zarnow (23:10)
a longer break, take our packs off, but I had never carried a pack that heavy before. I think I was like, yeah.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (23:17)
Yeah, that’s especially that much

elevation gain too over that.

Emily Zarnow (23:22)
Yeah, because before

that, I think the, before that, my last backpacking trip before that was my Angeles trip where I was like hiking with a…

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (23:28)
Where your husband

was carrying all the food, right?

Emily Zarnow (23:34)
So

at this point in time, I finally accumulated a better pack and I had some lighter gear, but my gear was still pretty heavy. I was using the REI Starter pack. Everything was definitely, I hadn’t narrowed in on sort of my, what fits for me really. And so that was definitely a wake up call, getting on the trail with a 30, 32 pound pack. was like, whoa.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (23:43)
Still pretty heavy, yeah.

Gotcha.

Yeah.

Emily Zarnow (24:03)
This is hard, this is really hard. that’s, yeah, especially on that climb because it has so much elevation gain and especially in that first, that like first couple of miles before you get to Lone Pine Lake. But once we got past Lone Pine Lake, ⁓ I felt like the views just opened up there and it’s just like stunning all the way. And that was kind of what made me fall in love with the Eastern Sierra. just like, it’s so beautiful up there and it definitely made hiking with that.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (24:05)
That’s a lot to carry up for sure, yeah.

Yeah.

Emily Zarnow (24:33)
pack much easier. But yeah, that was like my first real big back country overnight, ⁓ which was really amazing because we got to split it up over two days. We didn’t have to rush to try to get to the top in a day and which I think is an amazing achievement in and of itself. But I like to take pictures. I like to take my time, you know. yeah.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (24:54)
Mm definitely a slower hiker when it comes to that, because I’m like,

⁓ let me let me take. I’m like, Wait, so if this was like your first kind of like real big backpacking as opposed to the one that you did in Angeles. ⁓

Emily Zarnow (24:57)
Me too! Yeah, like, we need to take pictures, I need

Yeah.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (25:10)
What did you do to then to prepare, especially because of that elevation change and how high it was in elevation? Like, what did you do to prepare for that?

Emily Zarnow (25:14)
Yeah.

I trained, quote unquote, trained. ⁓ Did not train enough. ⁓ But I tried to work in, there’s a lot of really great information out there, especially here in Southern California to train for that particular hike, which is cool. So there’s a lot of big peaks down here. There’s like the six pack ⁓ peak of challenge or something like that.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (25:23)
Mm-hmm.

Okay, yeah.

Emily Zarnow (25:48)
And they all have really, really great elevation gain that can get you kind of prepared. So I kind of tried to work my way up, starting with like Mount Baden Powell. And then we did ⁓ San Jacinto and a few others in the area that just had like a lot of elevation gain leading up to that. then ⁓ like Mount Baden Powell in particular. There, so it ranges from, I want to say around like nine.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (26:10)
Now, and how tall are those mountains?

Emily Zarnow (26:18)
Like 9,800 to, I want to say Jacinto is 11 something. Or maybe 10 something. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I don’t know exactly, but they’re not at that same level of elevation. And that was definitely something that I would recommend preparing for more, like acclimating a little bit more, because we drove up there and we went right into the hike.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (26:23)
Okay, so still pretty high where you’ll feel the impact of that.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Emily Zarnow (26:47)
And coming from sea level, that’s intense for sure. Yeah, but we took, I think we took some Advil ahead of time and we just kind of, again, paced ourselves really well and having that night to sleep at trail camp before actually making our like push for the peak was definitely like so helpful. Cause I saw a lot of people out there who were just like, I think it doesn’t, it’s such a straightforward trail that I think a lot of people.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (26:50)
Mm-hmm, for sure, yeah.

I’m sure.

Emily Zarnow (27:17)
or just, you know, it’s an easy access. So a lot of people go out there and they’re like, I can do this in a day and it’s, it’s not going to affect me, but the elevation gain is, is wild. And I remember seeing people who were just like so out of it and like being like, are you okay? Like, do you need anything? Do you need to go back down? Like, yeah, yeah, it’s, it’s intense. And ⁓ there’s a lot of accidents up there every year. So it is, it is, yeah, definitely a serious hike. And we were worried the whole time about ⁓ there’s a section of trail where

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (27:31)
Like, do you need water? Do you need, yeah.

I’m sure.

Emily Zarnow (27:46)
there’s like a railing, but the railing has completely pushed over basically by all of the snowpack and ice that accumulates there every year. Yeah. Like more of like, it’s probably more of an obstacle at this point than anything. The ice and snow wasn’t really melting from that point. And that is like a crucial point in the 99 switchbacks that allows you to get through. if you can’t get through that section, you have to take the shoot, which

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (27:54)
So it’s more just decoration at this point.

Yeah. ⁓

Mm-hmm.

Emily Zarnow (28:14)
I and my brother both were like, we don’t have mountaineering experience in that way. We’d want to be comfortable glissading and using an ice axe and all of that. And I was just, I was having like dreams about this section of trail. We got there and it was completely melted and it was fine. And it was, yeah, it was great. But it was, there were definitely like pieces of the.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (28:19)
Yeah.

Nightmares.

that’s good.

Emily Zarnow (28:38)
of the trail that I think I was more worried about than I was actually of like the elevation or ⁓ like the altitude sickness or anything like that. I was more concerned about the trail itself, which didn’t end up being really an issue at all. ⁓

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (28:53)
Now, did you like considering that there might be like snow and ice on the trail? Did you bring gear for that just in case or?

Emily Zarnow (29:00)
We, did bring, I think we did bring, both bring micro spikes. We definitely both overpacked. My brother definitely brought an ice axe. So we had things with us, but yeah, I think, I think for us.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (29:12)
just in case, yeah. I forget that

being up that high, even in July, you can encounter ice and everything.

Emily Zarnow (29:18)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, the

shoot still had a lot of snow on it and some people were still taking it. So it was, yeah, it was something that we probably could have done better job of like, I remember looking at the weather and trying to track things and all of that, but just having a good understanding of like what the trail was going to be like, because we probably could have just left all that behind and saved ourselves a couple pounds. I’d always rather have those things than not.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (29:40)
pounds yeah yeah especially like the ice axe I can’t imagine.

know, I know it is like that, that like, it’s like, is it better? Like is the is having the weight worse than not having the item? Right. Yeah. But now, did you did you have any like big takeaways from the hike that you learned? Obviously, you just said like, you know, learning like tracking, like the weather and stuff like that. Anything else that you that you learned on that, that that trip that you now continue to use on your backpacking trips?

Emily Zarnow (29:50)
Yeah.

Yeah. Exactly.

Yeah.

Yeah,

think that for me was definitely like a great learning experience around like packing the essentials and really like trying to kind of hone in on what works for me and realizing and I still like I still do this every time I go out and come back but it’s like what didn’t I use and there were a lot of things that I didn’t use like I brought like

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (30:22)
Mm-hmm.

Emily Zarnow (30:36)
notebook and I brought my Kindle and I brought like all these things I brought like another pair of a change of clothes like a completely separate change of clothes and then something to sleep in and then and for me I’ve realized that like I can wear especially on like a one night trip like I’ll just wear the same thing I don’t yeah and then just have something fresh to sleep in so I think that trip really opened my eyes to like the hike will be a lot more enjoyable if you’re not carrying too much

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (30:47)
Yeah.

Emily Zarnow (31:04)
⁓ And I’m still not like a super ultra light backpacker by any means. I’m still within like the 25 to 28 pound range. ⁓ But those pounds, every ounce, every pound is so crucial.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (31:12)
Mm-hmm.

And it

it starts to to you can feel it more and more every mile that you are hiking. That’s a good.

Emily Zarnow (31:23)
Yeah, yeah, the longer you go, it’s like, okay, yeah. So I think that was definitely a big learning experience for me.

Yeah, again, it was just one of those things where it was like a milestone and a moment, you know, my brother and I, it was great having a companion on that trail and like somebody that we could, you know, kind of lift each other up as we were going and keep each other motivated.

But we had moments to ourselves as well. And so it was just, it was a nice kind of reminder that like I can do hard things. ⁓ I think it was like right before my, either like my 29th or 30th birthday. So I was feeling like I need to do something to like prove I can still do, you know, these hard things at this age. So yeah. ⁓

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (32:06)
That’s awesome.

I was reading it, I was like, my goodness, what a great experience. So thank you for sharing that. ⁓ Well, speaking of reading it, I was reading it on your website. And so I would love you to share about your website because you have a lot of really good information on there.

Emily Zarnow (32:12)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I you know, I started hikeology gosh, it was like 2014 and at the time I I think I was a little frustrated especially here in Los Angeles with like trying to track down information about Trails and at the time all trails didn’t exist and or not I wasn’t aware of it. I don’t think it is now it might have been just like a website or and

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (32:39)
Mm-hmm.

Maybe not to the extent, yeah.

Emily Zarnow (32:52)
I was reading blogs and what I would basically do is like, I’d have to screenshot blog posts about these trails because I wouldn’t have service. And then I, you know, so I had all these like photos of these blogs on my phone. And a lot of the times the pictures weren’t great. And most of the people who were creating content were men. And there was a lot of really condescending language out there around like amateur hikers or like women wearing yoga pants.

It just frustrated me because I was like, I wear yoga pants and I wear them because they’re comfortable and they’re easy for me in these conditions. Like, I don’t think we should be made fun of for the clothes that we wear. Women don’t have access to as much clothing in this space at the time as men did. So that was a little frustrating. And I was like, I’m gonna start my own blog. And I’m a photographer and I’m gonna get out there and I’m gonna take pictures and make this like a really beautiful experience for people.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (33:24)
Mm-hmm.

Emily Zarnow (33:52)
It lasted for maybe like a month or two, me like consistently getting out there and taking pictures, because I was like taking my phone with so much work. And I give everyone who does it more consistently like so much credit. And there’s some really great ⁓ blogs out there. think like HikeSpeak is one that ⁓ I often refer to, and there’s so much content in there. don’t know if it’s specifically for just… ⁓

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (33:59)
It’s a lot of work.

Emily Zarnow (34:18)
California, but there’s also like the hiking guy and like he is amazing at that kind of content. But I was just, I was just feeling like there was like not a lot of female presence ⁓ in the space. And I wanted to try to make the space a little bit more inclusive for myself and for others. And just, it was a really good way to also force myself to like get out and see parts of Los Angeles that I’d never seen before and explore trails. was like every weekend, it was like, okay, we’re gonna do this one this week.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (34:40)
Yeah, yeah.

Emily Zarnow (34:47)
Planning that was really fun. So it fell off for a little while, but then I continued to just keep up with hikeology But I never really put my face behind it. I always kind of kept it as this sort of know, trail stats and trail blog. And finally, one day I work at a branding agency and one of my colleagues was like,

you need to show your face more and you need to be like a part of your Instagram more because it’s like it’s so much more ⁓ it’s just so much more engaging for people. So I was like maybe I need to kind of change the my like perspective and start blogging a little bit more but also just like giving the trail stats but also giving the story that I had behind the trail. ⁓ And so that’s what the the website has kind of turned into. more of

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (35:36)
I love it. I thought it was great going through

your posts and learning a little bit more about you, but also the trails and everything. So I thought it was great. So I think you’re doing, yeah.

Emily Zarnow (35:44)
Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. I’m

just like trying not to have like put so much pressure on it. It’s like if I can get out, I can get out. And if I can pay attention to my blog one weekend and actually update it, then I can. But I would love to be more consistent with it. But it’s, you know, like you said, it’s a lot of work.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (36:02)
It is

a lot of work, especially when you’re working full time and you got other things going on. ⁓ So in addition to your website then, you also have social media. So what are your social media handles so everyone can find you?

Emily Zarnow (36:05)
Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm, yeah.

Yeah,

⁓ I go, this is part of the like non-personal side of it, but I go by Hikeology. I’m mostly on Instagram. have a TikTok. I think I have like three posts on my TikTok. ⁓ But I recently, this year I started ⁓ using YouTube as well to kind of be a piece of the story. And ⁓ that’s been really fun because I think getting into video and like long form video. I remember when Reels came out, I was like, no.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (36:28)
Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah, that is fun, yeah.

Emily Zarnow (36:46)
Like I am a photographer, I do static photos only. This is not gonna work for me. And now I actually really enjoy creating video content. It’s kind of fun. And I’ve been doing it a lot more in my job as well. It’s just like the way the world is going. So I was like, I think I wanna start playing around on YouTube. So I have a YouTube channel as well. Same handle, try to keep things consistent. Yeah. Yeah.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (37:01)
It is, yeah.

Yeah, that’s good. But that’s

great. So people can can follow along with your with your California adventures and everything and everywhere else you’re out there. ⁓ Before well, I do appreciate your time. I think you it’s been fantastic chatting with you before I let you go. I always like to ask everyone this question. And I know it’s funny because, you know, on the East Coast, like this is like the two things that you’re going to hike to. So I know it’s

Emily Zarnow (37:15)
Yeah.

Yeah.

No, I thank you. appreciate yours as well. This has been fun.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (37:36)
pretty like other people are like, wait, could I have another answer? But if you only have one ⁓ one kind of hike that you can do for the rest of your life, would you hike to somewhere with a gorgeous view or would you hike somewhere with like a waterfall?

Emily Zarnow (37:39)
Yeah.

I a view for me. love waterfalls, but I’ve been like, think burned by too many waterfalls here in Los Angeles. You hike to a waterfall and half the time it’s dry.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (38:09)
We have a waterfall not far from where I live and it’s like one of the closest ones and I’m gonna put waterfall in quotes because it’s like really, really pitiful. But like the last two times I was there, it literally looked like someone just like left the hose on in their backyard. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Emily Zarnow (38:15)
Yeah.

Yeah, that’s basically how it is in LA half the time. which I mean, so

we get really excited about waterfalls here, but ⁓ I love a big view. Yeah. Yeah.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (38:32)
Yeah, a view. Yeah, especially up in you, you know, the Sierras

there, you got the Alpine lakes and whatnot, you get you got great views. So but well, Emily, again, thank you so much for hanging out with me. I’ve had great time chatting with you and looking forward to following more about your adventures online and on your on your website and read more of your stories. So

Emily Zarnow (38:38)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Thank you.

It’s been a blast.

Explore the Wonders of PA With Tory Mather

Lauren Stites — Tue, 14 Apr 2026 09:00:00 +0000

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Writing About the Natural Wonders of Pennsylvania

Tory Mather is back!

And this time, it’s to talk about her brand-new book, Natural Scenic Wonders of Pennsylvania.

During the episode, Tory shares about the writing and research process for her book. She discusses how long it took to visit every location (all 84 of them!) and how difficult it was to get colorful photos in a state that is grey 50% of the year.

Her book incorporates something for everyone, whether you enjoy climbing through caves, long hikes, or just pulling off the side of the road to see a beautiful waterfall.

What We Talk About This Episode

[00:01:16] England Recap: Tory shares about her England backpacking trip she was preparing for on her previous episode.

[00:05:33] Book Elevator Pitch: Tory gives a quick description of what readers can expect in her book Scenic Natural Wonders of Pennsylvania.

[00:07:26] Getting the Book Deal: Tory talks about reaching out to her publisher and eventually getting the opportunity to write her book.

[00:09:02] Researching the Book: Tory describes the beginning process of determining which locations to include in her book.

[00:14:10] On the Road: Tory explains how she was away from home about 1/3 of the year to research the book.

[00:16:14] Caves Are Cool: Tory shares some of her favorite places she visited, including several caves in Pennsylvania.

[00:22:16] Bucks List Places: Tory talks about some of the Pennsylvania locations she was excited to finally visit.

[00:24:31] Fun Wildlife: Tory shares a story about seeing a favorite animal in the wild

[00:25:33] Picture Perfect: Tory describes the process of gathering photographs for each location.

[00:30:47] Biggest Natural Pothole: Tory confirms she includes the Archbald Pothole in her book.

[00:31:51] Where to Buy: Tory lists all of the places you can purchase her new book, including through this link.

Tory @torytalkstrails (00:00)
And I was just sort of like walking along the road, trying to take some pictures there. And you can walk along, like along the side of the road and there’s the bog right there. And I was just kind of standing with my camera and I saw an otter in real life, which was like the coolest thing I have ever seen. It was amazing.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (00:16)
No, I’m so jealous.

Tory @torytalkstrails (00:19)
and I was totally alone and so I’m just like freaking out in my mind of how excited I am then like trying to be quiet and then like trying to figure out where it’s gonna come up so I can take the picture and yeah it was so cool.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (00:38)
This episode, I’m excited to welcome back Tory Mather. Tory spoke

me in season one about the Rachel Carson Trail Challenge. That is a mouthful. But she’s here now to talk about her brand new book, Scenic Natural Wonders of Pennsylvania.

She talks about why she chose to write the book, the effort and time it took into researching, and also she shares some of her favorite places in Pennsylvania.

I’m excited about the book, I can’t wait to check it out, and I’m happy to have Tory here to share it with you. So let’s get into it.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (01:05)
Hi Tory, welcome back. I’m so glad to have you here and now to talk about your brand new book. How’s everything going?

Tory @torytalkstrails (01:13)
Everything’s going great. Thank you so much for having me again, Lauren. It was so fun to talk to you last time.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (01:16)
Yes,

you are my first repeat interview. So I’m just, know, you win the prize for that. Woohoo. I just want to recap because last time we talked and I know you did this trip, you were planning a backpacking trip to England. Do you want to share just like a little bit about that and how that went?

Tory @torytalkstrails (01:21)
Wow! So exciting!

Yes!

Absolutely.

So we did, it’s a trail called the Cumbria Way and it’s in the Lake District of England. It is 70, it is 70 trail miles long. My Garmin clocked it at 78. So we did it over five days and it was super awesome. We did it like end of May, early June. It did

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (01:50)
That’s long. Nice.

Tory @torytalkstrails (02:01)
rain a lot. like we had wet feet for probably like 70 miles of the 78 miles we hiked, but it was worth it. The scenery was amazing. It’s like not too popular of a trail. So we it wasn’t crowded. You like go in and out of all these very cute towns. ⁓ So yeah, it was great. I saw like I hiked my

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (02:06)
Yeah.

That sounds so fun.

Tory @torytalkstrails (02:26)
probably like a pound and a half of camera gear. And I think most of my photos were of like baby sheep. Like I some landscape photos, but I was just so obsessed with how cute the baby sheep are. They are so cute. my goodness. Yeah. So it was great. And I feel like that’s one that I would really recommend for like, if you’re looking to get into backpacking and you’re comfortable doing something international, like

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (02:32)
You

But they are so cute and photogenic, so I don’t blame you.

Tory @torytalkstrails (02:55)
This wasn’t a trail where we camped, so we did like a hostel or an inn or an Airbnb every night.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (03:06)
Okay, so you had a warm place to dry off your wet feet.

Tory @torytalkstrails (03:10)
Yes, which was ⁓

much needed. You can camp. You have to be a little more strategic about, I mean, we had to be strategic about it anyway, because like we had to book stuff in advance, so you know your mileage every day. It’s not just one of those like, we’ll see how far we get and then we’ll pitch the tent. ⁓ So you did have to plan it a lot, but I feel like it would be great if you’re like, okay, I love hiking. I would love to do multi-day hiking. I don’t know how I feel about sleeping outside. You can get like the hot meal, the shower, the bed.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (03:18)
Mm-hmm.

Tory @torytalkstrails (03:37)
but also hike, you know, I think every day was 12 to 18 miles a day. So yes, I agree. And ⁓ my husband does not love sleeping on the ground. So this is like our compromise of like, okay, we’re both good with hiking multi double digit days back to back to back, but he wants like a pint and a meat pie and a shower at night. And I’m like, okay, you know, hard sell.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (03:43)
The best of both worlds.

I don’t blame them. don’t blame them. I’d be the same way. So that’s

good to know, though. And then I know you have another adventure coming up where you headed soon, right?

Tory @torytalkstrails (04:12)
⁓ I am headed to Scotland to do the West Highland way. So similar, similar type of thing. ⁓ we’re going to do it. It’s about a hundred miles and we’re doing it over six days. ⁓ and we are potentially adding in right now, the plan is to add in a side quest to hike the UK is highest peak. we, we, yeah. we.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (04:23)
Okay.

Well that’s cool. Now how

tall is their highest peak though? ⁓ I’m just curious, yeah.

Tory @torytalkstrails (04:35)
I don’t know. We

did it once before, but we got kind of fogged out at the top. So we’re like, okay, we want to go back and try to see if we can get the views. But it was a great hike when we did it. Then I’m interested to see how I’ll feel on like day six of seven trying to do it.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (04:45)
Gotcha.

Now, you

might have just said it and I interrupted you. don’t know. Is this going to be similar to what you did before where you’ll stay at the hostels, the inn, stuff like that? Yeah, that’s nice.

Tory @torytalkstrails (05:02)
Yeah. Yeah.

And what’s fun about that is that like, I mean, you’ll meet people in campgrounds and stuff if you do camping, but it’s, it’s cool to like talk to the locals. And a lot of the time, like when we were on the Cumbria way, there was like a couple we saw at breakfast that then we saw at dinner and like hearing how everybody’s day was. it’s just like fun. Yeah. It’s fun to meet people from like all over the world that are doing the same thing as you. So.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (05:13)
Yeah.

You’re kind of on the same schedule.

That’s so cool. Well, enjoy that. That sounds like so fun. I might have to have you back on so you can talk about it. But the reason I actually do have you on here is because you wrote, researched and wrote a brand new book all about Pennsylvania scenic natural wonders of Pennsylvania. So give me like the elevator pitch real quick about the book.

Tory @torytalkstrails (05:33)
Thanks.

Love too.

Yes.

Sure. So Scenic Natural Wonders of Pennsylvania is, it showcases 84 different spots in Pennsylvania to get outside. So there’s waterfalls, which I think are my personal favorite. There’s a scenic overlooks, there’s caves, both show and wild caves. And there’s like natural areas, rock formations. So there’s really something for everyone in the book. There are trails that are like

or features that are like road sides, you can literally just like pull off the road and see it, or there’s ⁓ stuff that’s like, this is a six mile super hard hike or a nine mile super hard hike. So there’s something for everyone, I think, no matter what your level of adventuring is or what your accessibility is, like you can find something to do in the book.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (06:44)
So you live in Pennsylvania, but you didn’t grow up here, but you’ve lived here for a while now.

Tory @torytalkstrails (06:46)
Yes. No.

Yes. So I lived on the east side of the state in Philadelphia for six years. And then I moved to, I moved around a little bit, but then we came to Pittsburgh in 2021. So I have now lived here for four and a half years. So total like over 10 years in Pennsylvania on both sides of the state now.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (06:54)
Yes. Yes.

So you’ve been able to explore the state, really find all the gems that you have in your book. What about Pennsylvania made you or why are we writing this book? Did someone approach you or were you like, I love this state, I wanna showcase it.

Tory @torytalkstrails (07:26)
So ⁓ I feel like I got a little bit lucky in my journey. So I have always wanted to write a book. was an English major in college. I have all of these notebooks from when I was like six on, journaling my life. ⁓ So I have been writing for a very long time. ⁓ And I actually had pitched this publisher, Reedy Press, with a different idea. And they were like, ⁓

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (07:42)
Love that.

Tory @torytalkstrails (07:54)
We’re not super into that idea, but we’re restarting this series, ⁓ like the Scenic Natural Wonders series. They had only released one book and so they wanted to like actually make it a state series and then ⁓ do a bunch of different states. So they were like, well, do you want to write the Pennsylvania one? ⁓ And so I was like, ⁓ okay, yeah, great. Yeah, so it actually worked out. It worked out very well for me. feel like, you know, that’s one of the questions I get asked the most is like,

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (08:12)
⁓ nice. Like I can handle that.

Tory @torytalkstrails (08:24)
How did you end up getting published? And I did objectively get pretty lucky in that journey.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (08:32)
No, but that’s awesome. But you know, that’s the if you don’t ask, you know, you you won’t ever get the S right. So yeah. So you said how many places did you include in the book? You said 80. 84. Now, I think some people might be like, there’s not 84 cool places in Pennsylvania, but you know, but we we know better. We know better when you explore the state enough. You definitely can find some really cool gems. How many of the places?

Tory @torytalkstrails (08:39)
Yeah, that’s true.

about 84 in

you

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (09:02)
Did you visit prior to researching the book? Like, did you know about you’d been there firsthand? About how many?

Tory @torytalkstrails (09:10)
Probably, I would bet like 20 to 30 % I had been there, or it was places where like, I knew was amazing. And I just hadn’t been there yet. So like Ricketts Glen, I had never been to until I researched for the book. like, everybody knows that Ricketts Glen is like amazing. And Pennsylvania Grand Canyon, same thing like that that had been on my bucket list.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (09:15)
Good, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Tory @torytalkstrails (09:35)
And then when it was time to write the book, was like, okay, well, I was going to go here anyway. And I obviously know that it’s amazing. And so I would say I probably had been to like, yeah, probably 20 to 20 to 30%. And then throughout the research process, so like, I’m a spreadsheet person, like anyone who knows me knows that I am I like love a good spreadsheet. And so yeah, so when I first started researching, I kind of like, brain dumped all of the places that I thought would be good.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (09:53)
Love a good spreadsheet, yes.

Tory @torytalkstrails (10:03)
⁓ and then I tried to kind of map them out by like region accessibility, like what type of feature they were, because, ⁓ like as a kind of a project manager background, it’s like, have to treat the book a little bit, like a balanced portfolio where like, okay, I love waterfalls and I love like seven mile hikes. But if I just wrote a book that was seven mile hikes to waterfalls, like that’s obviously very limiting. ⁓ so trying to balance.

Like what do I like and what do I like to do versus what do I think would be, you know, appealing for a larger audience? Yeah. So I’m sure there are places where I’m sure there are things where people will be like, Oh my God, I can’t believe you didn’t include insert this place here. it’s. Yeah. Um, and I, I think part of it is like, I made very deliberate decisions on like what to include versus what not to include, um, based on.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (10:37)
A universal, yeah.

Yes, there’s always a place that you’re missing.

Tory @torytalkstrails (11:01)
Kind of like mapping everything out, trying to make sure every county in the state had a place that was like close enough that people could get to. So yeah, it was a pretty interesting process. I think I started my spreadsheet with like 150 or 175 potential ideas and then kind of like knocked them down as a, yeah, as I either visited and was like, I don’t know if this is like quite good enough or as I was like, ⁓ cool, I have.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (11:18)
wow. We had an errat down here.

Tory @torytalkstrails (11:28)
eight waterfalls in the Poconos, like I need to pick like three or four. As much as I would love to have all of them in. Yeah. Yeah.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (11:34)
Yes. Well, that could be another book, Waterfalls of the Poconos.

Now, so you did say how you came up with a list like you you did some research now, the research was it like friends and family saying, Tory, you need to include this or was it like online Instagram, social media kind of stuff? where did you find these places?

Tory @torytalkstrails (11:54)
Yeah.

So I am a blog person. I looked at blogs, I would say for the most part, I did ask around, know, like people who have lived here for a long time, kind of was like, Hey, I’m starting this project. Like, is there anywhere cool near you, especially places that I had not spent a lot of times like, is there anything cool near you that you think like, I wouldn’t be able to find? ⁓ I also reached out to a bunch of different

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (11:59)
Mm-hmm.

Tory @torytalkstrails (12:22)
DMOs. So for listeners as a destination marketing organization, so that’s like your, your visit Pittsburgh, your visit Philadelphia, your visit the PA wilds it was really nice to be able to have like, I think it opened the door to more conversation sometimes to be like, Hey, I’m doing this research. Like, what are your thoughts? What do you think is good? So that was nice to have conversations with, like destination marketing professionals who live in the place and like,

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (12:50)
Yes, and

they know their region, they know what’s good.

Tory @torytalkstrails (12:52)
Yeah,

yeah. And I would say like every person I’ve talked to at a DMO, like the amount of facts that they can just spout off the top of their head is so impressive. Like every single person I talked to was great. that was also, I think something that I would not have even known existed if it wasn’t for like the content creation aspect ⁓ of my work.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (13:18)
Mm-hmm.

Tory @torytalkstrails (13:20)
But knowing that it existed, like it’s such a good resource. And I would recommend to like anyone planning a trip anywhere, like whether it’s in Pennsylvania or Michigan or California, like go to the DMO website first because they have put a lot of time and energy into researching and like providing guidance for their region.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (13:29)
Anyway, yeah.

So how long did this take? Usually books take a while. Is this like a couple year process for you?

Tory @torytalkstrails (13:47)
Um, so I signed my, I signed my contract, I think in June or July of 2024, and then really started like planning out all my trips in August of that year. Um, and then finished the first draft, um, August 15th of 2025. So it was basically like a full, a full year end to end, I would say.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (14:10)
you work full time. This isn’t your full time gig. So like how often were you out and about? you like every weekend you were somewhere else in the state?

Tory @torytalkstrails (14:18)
Yeah,

it was it was a lot. I actually this was another spreadsheet that I kept track of that I want to do again this year is like how many days I was away from home and like where I was for each of those days. Like was I on a press trip? Was I on a research trip? Like did I go stay with my parents? Was I visiting a friend? And so I was actually away from home 101 days last year. So it was a lot of time away from home. Yeah,

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (14:42)
my goodness, that’s a lot!

Tory @torytalkstrails (14:45)
my dog was definitely like, ma’am, like please come home. ⁓ And I also would like to get a little more like value out of my mortgage this year. Cause it was like, cool, I’m paying my mortgage and I’m not even sleeping at home for most of the year.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (14:55)
Yeah.

that’s, mean, it’s awesome that you’re able to do that, that you had the time and flexibility to go to all these places, not just to research the book, but also see friends and family and stuff like that. So maybe this year, maybe we’re a little bit more home based this year.

Tory @torytalkstrails (15:05)
Yes.

Yeah.

And it’s like, love Pittsburgh and I feel like there’s so much to do here. And so like, it was hard to, you know, like have, I mean, we’ve, we’ve been here for four years. I feel like we have a good friend group, but it’s, you know, it’s not a friend group that’s been around for 20 years. It’s like a, you know, two to three year old friend group. And so someone would be like, it’s, know, it’s someone’s birthday this weekend. Like, here’s what we’re going to do. And I’m like, I’m in Allegheny national forest or I’m at Ricketts Glen or. Yeah. So it was like.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (15:21)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

You’re like, five hours away, sorry.

Tory @torytalkstrails (15:46)
As much as I loved the process and I would absolutely do it again, I did miss out on a lot of my life ⁓ from being gone so much. So I’m hopeful this year that I will be able to spend more time with my friends and family. Yeah.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (15:54)
Yeah.

That’s a good goal. That’s a good goal.

So while you were researching and visiting these places, did you learn any like new and interesting facts about Pennsylvania that you were like, oh, I had no idea.

Tory @torytalkstrails (16:14)
Yeah, so I think one of the coolest things for me was the caves. So I knew that I wanted to include caves because like, you know, they’re very cool, very unique. I one didn’t really know anything about caves when I first started researching and two, like, was kind of like ⁓ caves, like, you know, I’d rather be outside, you know, like, how cool can this really be? And the first cave I went to, yeah.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (16:41)
Very cool.

Tory @torytalkstrails (16:42)
Yes, I learned that they’re

very cool. I went to Lincoln Caverns in Huntington County ⁓ and was chatting with the owner and there and like her wealth of knowledge about like I learned in our I think was like 45 minute or hour long conversation like I learned more about caves than I knew in my entire life and like it was fascinating and then I went on the tour and I was like this is so cool and so I feel like that completely like now I’m like

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (17:08)
Mm-hmm.

Tory @torytalkstrails (17:12)
Anytime someone asks me for something cool to do in a region with a cave, I’ll be like, yeah, you should go to that cave. And they’re like, what do you mean a cave? So I think that was very cool for me and something I didn’t expect. I think also like the role of caves in bat conservation, super fascinating. Like that’s something I didn’t really know about. ⁓ And so that was something where like my publisher wanted me to get photos that were like pretty.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (17:29)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Tory @torytalkstrails (17:42)
And so unfortunately, Pennsylvania from like November to April, depending on where you are in the state, not always. And so I was like, well, I’ll just do the caves during the winter so that I can like still do stuff and research and write. And then I’ll try to, you know, save everything else for like fall or summer or spring or like when there’s snow on the ground, which is a little unpredictable. ⁓ But a lot of the caves in Pennsylvania, like

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (17:47)
Yeah, a little grey.

Tory @torytalkstrails (18:10)
Woodward Cave and Laurel Caverns are closed over the winter for the bat hibernation. So I learned that very quickly and was like, all right, I need to like, re change my strategy for this. ⁓ But it was interesting.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (18:14)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, think Crystal Cave also closes for the winter. don’t know

if it’s for the bats, but I know they’re also closed. yeah, there was like a couple years ago, there was a big like a white fungus, I think, like the white-nosed fungus that affected bats here. And they had volunteers in like the early spring go into caves and count all the bats. I’m like, I wish I couldn’t do it that weekend or else I would 100 % have done it because I love bats. I think they’re so fun.

Tory @torytalkstrails (18:28)
Yeah.

Yeah.

They are such unique animals. yeah, and that’s like, you know, that disease, the white white nose syndrome is devastating for the bat population and learning about that. And then like how much bats contribute to the ecosystem by eating, you know, it’s like, you should look this up after the podcast, because I’m probably going to butcher it. But it’s something where like a bat can eat like a pound of insects every night they go out or something crazy where you’re like, yeah. And I, you know, as someone who

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (18:56)
Mm-hmm.

They do eat a lot though, yes, yeah.

Tory @torytalkstrails (19:16)
for some reason I’m like very appealing to mosquitoes. I’m like, yes, bats, like please eat all the mosquitoes.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (19:22)
Where we

live, actually do have a lot of active bats, so it’s really nice at dusk. You see them flying around. One, always think they look so silly, because they look like they’re trying so hard to stay up. They’re like, we’re not actually meant to do this. But I’m like, eat all the mosquitoes, please get them all. Well, that’s cool. you did the caves. Now you said you did some showcase and you also did some natural caves. Is that correct?

Tory @torytalkstrails (19:33)
Yeah.

Yes, seriously, yeah, that’s really awesome.

Yeah, so I have one wild cave in the book. ⁓ And that, yeah, and that, that a little bit freaked me out. So you so this cave, you have to get perm, it’s called Tituna cave. And it’s in the western part of the state, I think in in Blair County. ⁓ And you have to get permits from the like, I’m gonna mess up how you say the cave society, but it’s like spelunkical society or something, you have to get these you have to get permits. And when you like,

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (19:53)
Or wild caves They’re all natural. I’m okay.

It’s okay.

Tory @torytalkstrails (20:19)
get the permits, they, you you have to read this waiver that’s basically like, you could die in this cave. And so that freaked me out a little bit. I was not going there alone. But it is a cave that they like tried to make a show cave and then it got taken over by either the Western Conservancy. And then I think like somehow ended up with the Cave Society, but it’s like a natural area and water flows through it. So you can, you can explore it.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (20:24)
Hmm.

Tory @torytalkstrails (20:49)
I if people want to do that, I would recommend that they like have experience in that and be very prepared because yes, people have died there. ⁓ And so like, that’s something where I was, I was also a little bit back and forth about including that one because like, there is obviously a much higher risk if someone who is not prepared, like goes and tries to do this. But I think because of the permit aspect and because you are basically like trespassing on this property, if you

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (20:55)
Mm-hmm.

Tory @torytalkstrails (21:19)
show up and you don’t have a permit. ⁓ I felt okay that people who would go there would be prepared by all the documents that the cave society makes you read and sign. It was really interesting, honestly, and stuff that I didn’t know about before.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (21:20)
Mm-hmm.

That’s really cool. do. mean, just to go back, like I like caves. We’ve we’ve visited several. I’m like, I could never get enough caves because also just like how they’re formed and like, you know, whether there’s water inside or not and what kind of rock, you know, that the caves are made out of. It’s just they’re so fascinating. So I’m glad you included them in your book, because, we do have we have at least like, I think, like five or six in the state, right? Something like that. ⁓ seven.

Tory @torytalkstrails (21:52)
Yes.

Yeah, we have seven show caves,

maybe eight showcase. Now I’m like, was it eight? It’s either eight show caves and nine with Ty Tuna, the Wild Cave or seven and eight. Yeah.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (22:06)
I can’t remember.

Yes, we have a fair amount. So

not as many as Virginia, I guess, but. of all the places that you got to visit, maybe of the new ones, like even though you’ve been to some before that, did you have anything that stood out as a favorite for you or a couple that were like, I’m so glad I got to finally be here?

Tory @torytalkstrails (22:16)
Yeah.

⁓ I think Ricketts Glen, I mean, was an amazing one. Like I had had that on my list to visit like when I lived out in Philly and then it just like never worked out. ⁓ And so I was happy to finally go and it was, I mean, it was so cool. Like, yeah. I will say like, I think people don’t realize how hard that hike can be. Like it is not a short hike and it has a decent amount of elevation.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (22:47)
So beautiful, yeah, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Tory @torytalkstrails (23:00)
⁓ and so like when we were there, I saw a family with like some pretty young kids descending one of the like very steep staircases next to the waterfall. There’s no railing. And so like, I would not recommend it for people with young kids. ⁓ yeah, like I think probably like a seven or an eight year old that’s like sure-footed and listens and thinks logically, like, ⁓

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (23:11)
Yeah, and there’s no railings.

Yeah, no, I agree.

Yes.

Tory @torytalkstrails (23:27)
and for folks that are comfortable hiking that far, but I mean, it was amazing. It was super cool.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (23:34)
If you want a family-friendly version in Pennsylvania, go to Bushkill instead. They have railings there.

Tory @torytalkstrails (23:39)
that’s yes. Yeah. And

then I also really liked and I had been here, I had been to this place before I wrote the book and knew like, as soon as I was starting to write, I knew I wanted to include it was a black Mo Shannon, like the bog there. That’s in Center County. So that’s a state park in Center County. learning about the like the unique plants.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (23:55)
Okay.

Tory @torytalkstrails (24:03)
and how the bog ecosystem works was very cool. ⁓ And they have a great trail. It’s just called the bog trail and that’s like a mile. It’s wheelchair accessible. Like it’s beautiful. You get views. And so like if you want something family friendly, that’s a good one. They have all these like educational signs so you can learn about all the fun bog things. So.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (24:15)
that’s nice.

I would say like I don’t think about Pennsylvania and having bogs, you know, but.

Tory @torytalkstrails (24:31)
Actually, one of the other places

that I really loved was Tannersville Cranberry Bog. Yeah, and so that’s like up in the Poconos and that is a place where if you want to go like through the bog, you have to go on a tour. It’s like an environmental tour through I think Kettle Creek skate park, environmental education system. ⁓

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (24:38)
⁓

Okay.

Tory @torytalkstrails (25:01)
And that is like so cool.

And I was just sort of like walking along the road, trying to take some pictures there. And you can walk along, like along the side of the road and there’s the bog right there. And I was just kind of standing with my camera and I saw an otter in real life, which was like the coolest thing I have ever seen. It was amazing. I. Yeah.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (25:21)
No, I’m so jealous.

I always say when I die, that’s what I want to come back as, as a River Otter.

Tory @torytalkstrails (25:29)
Yes, and

so like I have wanted to see an odd like I love otters at the zoo and just like I if my entire Instagram feed was otter videos I wouldn’t hate it and so to like see one in real life was and I was totally alone and so I’m just like freaking out in my mind of how excited I am then like trying to be quiet and then like trying to figure out where it’s gonna come up so I can take the picture and yeah it was so cool.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (25:33)
The cutest, yes.

That’s so awesome. Wait, so speaking of pictures, know, you know, talking with other book authors that it’s definitely they they want like the publishers want the nice, the colorful, the really pretty pictures. How hard was it for you to to get all those? I know you kind of put out like an APB to people like, hey, do you have photos? But how hard was it for you to be able to get all the the photos that they wanted that the publisher wanted?

Tory @torytalkstrails (26:14)
Yes.

⁓ I think it was, it was a little bit challenging. And I think part of that was because like, the publisher is based in Missouri and so they don’t like, they don’t know what Pennsylvania looks like or what it is. And so like for, mean, we know that the state is like gray and brown from November to April. And then it’s like brown and green until like September. And then it’s colorful for two months and that’s it. ⁓ and it like,

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (26:30)
Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Yeah.

Two months

if you’re lucky. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Tory @torytalkstrails (26:48)
Well, it depends on where you are. Maybe like, maybe three weeks.

And so they had a, like, they had a number of photos that they wanted to have colors in and that was defined as like not green, brown or gray. ⁓ So when I submitted my photos originally, they came back and they were like, hey, we want to have at least 30 % of these photos have color in them. And so that was, I think I got that email September 29th.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (27:04)
you

Tory @torytalkstrails (27:16)
So I like rearrange my entire fall travel schedule to like try to hit some of the places that I had already been and, you know, asking friends like you or other friends, like if other people had photos because I really wanted to make sure that the book came out in the spring. I didn’t want to delay it at all because I think like this is the best time of year to have it out. People are like, yeah.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (27:19)
Mm.

Yeah.

definitely, because people are ready,

their summer trips ready, they’re going to explore Pennsylvania.

Tory @torytalkstrails (27:45)
Yeah, so was definitely a bit of a scramble ⁓ at the end, but I feel very lucky that I have people in my life that I can, you know, ask for photos like yourself and like some of the other great photographers like Kate, ⁓ Kate Explorers it All, Tiffany Oden from Got Lost on Purpose, Michelle Granara, The Adventures Abound, and then Aliyah from Happily Ever Exploring, like just very grateful that people were like, hey, yeah, I have this photo of this.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (28:01)
yeah.

Tory @torytalkstrails (28:13)
you know, this tree that has color on it and you can use it. So that was, that was awesome. Yes.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (28:18)
It’s good to have a network for sure. But that’s

awesome. Yeah, I was thinking about that because I because I had interviewed another author and she was saying like she had been this was in New England and she had been to, you know, all these different hikes. But she’s like, but I had to go back to them and I had to like run through the trail to get the picture of the waterfall or the swimming hole and then, you know, run to the next trail because she needed it all, you know, the colorful thing. So that’s was wondering.

Tory @torytalkstrails (28:44)
Mm hmm. Yeah, I had a similar experience.

I went back to Harrisburg in the fall to hike Hawk Rock and get like photos in the fall. it was basically like, so thankfully I have I have an office I have to so I have to be in the office three days a week and I can be remote on Monday and Friday. But I had worked out of our office out there.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (29:05)
Okay.

Tory @torytalkstrails (29:10)
And I was like, okay, I’ll do this hike in the morning before work. Cause it’s short, you can get it done. But it was like rainy and disgusting. in the morning, so I was like, okay, well, I’m not gonna like, can’t get photos of that. So I basically had to like text my boss and be like, hey, I have to take two hours of PTO this afternoon. He was like, oh, is everything okay? And I was like, yeah, I just have to do this hike for the, like, I’m really sorry. Like thankfully, yeah, like thankfully he was like, he knew about like the whole deadline and everything.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (29:14)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah

Do a hike.

Yeah.

Tory @torytalkstrails (29:40)
think really like very chill. But I just that’s one of those things where like I do try to keep my worlds very separate in that respect. And so that was the one the one time where I had to like last minute take some time off to get get that that was my last one. And so like, I submitted the book like the next day.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (29:59)
That’s amazing.

It’s good that you were able that you were already there, too. So that’s yeah, that’s good. So speaking of hikes, though, so, you know, it’s a hiking podcast. How many hikes do you have listed in the book then? About.

Tory @torytalkstrails (30:02)
Yeah.

⁓

I would have to look, think like, probably, probably at least half of them have some sort of hike. And I think it probably depends on like, you know, what, what you count as a hike. for example, yeah. Yeah, like Beartown Rocks. that’s not like technically a hike, but you can kind of.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (30:20)
That’s awesome.

Well, you said like the trail at Black Moshan and like that, I would still consider that a hike, whether it’s wheelchair accessible or not. Yeah, so.

No, but you’re

Tory @torytalkstrails (30:35)
around. Yeah, yeah, so maybe,

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (30:36)
scrambling around, you’re doing stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tory @torytalkstrails (30:39)
maybe with that definition, maybe like 70 % of them have like some sort of hike. So

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (30:44)
Did you

include the pothole in your book?

Tory @torytalkstrails (30:47)
I did

include the pothole. It was one of those things where, you know, people had mixed reviews, I will say. Like people were like, oh, get your hopes up. And I’m glad I didn’t. But if you learn about like the geological history of it, like it is actually cool that Pennsylvania has the world’s largest naturally occurring pothole. But then you see it and you’re like, maybe I wouldn’t have taken a separate trip for this.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (30:55)
Is this the big hole in the ground?

No.

You

Tory @torytalkstrails (31:17)
So

⁓ it’s interesting, think. I did include that one. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Don’t drive five hours to go see the pothole, but if you’re in the area, go see.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (31:21)
If you’re in the area, if you’re in the Northeast, maybe check it out. I always think

it’s funny too that we have the world’s largest pothole like naturally occurring because I feel like the second and third largest ones are on our road as well.

Tory @torytalkstrails (31:36)
Yes, 100%.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (31:39)
All right. Back to the book. So when does the book come out for everybody who’s interested in it?

Tory @torytalkstrails (31:44)
It comes out on April 15th, so.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (31:47)
which

this podcast will air the day before, so technically it’ll come out tomorrow. Yay! But April 15th. And then where can everyone find the book?

Tory @torytalkstrails (31:51)
Exciting! It comes out tomorrow, yay!

⁓ So it is available basically anywhere you get books. I would recommend that folks either, if you want an autographed copy, you can buy it directly from me. yeah, I have, if you go to either my website, mytrailsaremany.com, or if you go to my Instagram, at Tory Talks Trails, I have links to buy it directly from me. like you could get an autographed copy, you know, I’ll send it right to your house. ⁓

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (32:11)
Ooh, I like that.

Tory @torytalkstrails (32:28)
You can also buy a direct from my publisher, so readepress.com. They have free shipping, so that’s a benefit there. ⁓ And then it’s also on bookshop.org. So if you want to support your local independent bookstore, ⁓ can buy it online, get a chip to you, and you just pick which bookstore you want to support. It is also on Amazon, but I would recommend that you don’t give your money to billionaires.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (32:52)
Yeah, yeah, we’ll go. Will you,

will the book also be in some of the bookstores around the state?

Tory @torytalkstrails (32:58)
Yeah, so that’s something I am working with my publisher on right now of trying to figure out like who is going to stock it. I mean, ideally we can get it in at some of the attractions as well. some of the, you know, some of the caves have agreed to stock it. So I should have more information by the time that this releases.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (33:03)
Mm-hmm.

Yes.

and then you did say where you can be found. So it’s mytrailsaremany.com and then toritalkstrails on Instagram ⁓ and I guess all the social medias, right? That’s what you are.

Tory @torytalkstrails (33:24)
Yep.

Yeah, yeah.

I’m Tory Talks Trails on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (33:37)
Tory, I’m so excited about this book. I can’t wait to read it because I feel like it’s gonna become like my little like Pennsylvania bucket list guide. I’m gonna go through and see like, okay, I have been here. No, I haven’t been here. So I gotta check it off. I’ll make my own spreadsheet.

Tory @torytalkstrails (33:40)
Thank you.

Nice.

I have been thinking about like, okay, should I make a spreadsheet for other people? Because there are I mean, there’s pieces of information that I feel like, like the book has a lot, but it doesn’t have everything. So like, should I put GPS coordinates for people and just, you know, figuring out things that maybe the publisher didn’t want, but like is helpful information if you’re looking so might be working on that.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (34:15)
I mean, that could just be like a fun, like, because you’re going to stay near home this summer. So that could be like a fun project to do when the weather isn’t quite conducive to to get out and about near Pittsburgh. So.

Tory @torytalkstrails (34:19)
Definitely. Yes. Yes.

Yes.

And if you buy the book, the first photo you’ll see is one of Lauren’s photos. So yeah, it’s literally like the first one. So very exciting.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (34:34)
really?

You will. I’m a published photographer. ⁓ No, that’s awesome. Yay. But

well, again, I’m so excited. Thank you for coming on here to share about your new book, Scenic and Natural Wonders of Pennsylvania. And again, when this podcast airs, it’ll be available the next day. So definitely get your orders in people. ⁓ Thanks for hanging out. And I can’t wait to hear about Scotland.

Tory @torytalkstrails (35:03)
Yeah,

thanks for having me. I always enjoy coming to chat with you.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (35:08)
Awesome. Thanks, Tor.

How Dogs Help Conservationists on the Trail With Jennifer Hartman

Lauren Stites — Tue, 31 Mar 2026 11:00:00 +0000

In this day and age, I feel the need to mention that I don’t use AI to write my posts!

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APPLE | SPOTIFY | YOUTUBE

Using Dogs to Aid With Conservation

This might be the coolest job ever!!

Conservationist Jennifer Hartman shares all about working with dogs on Season Two Episode 7 of Her Side of the Trail. She describes what traits they look for in the dogs they adopt from rescues and what it’s like to train them and their human counterparts.

Jennifer and her team from Rogue Detection Teams have traveled all over the globe to gather data for genetic analysis to provide information about endangered and rare animals. It really is the coolest job!!

What We Talk About This Episode

[00:02:32] Childhood: Jennifer shares about her experiences growing up

[00:04:08] Rogue Detection Teams: Jennifer briefly describes what she does for work

[00:05:23] The Path to Detection: Jennifer talks about the steps she took as an undergrad and graduate that led her to working in wildlife biology

[00:08:36] Bounder vs Canine Handler: Jennifer discusses why they choose to use the term “bounder” versus “canine handler”

[00:09:53] Job Expectations: Jennifer shares what traits make a person a good “bounder” with the team

[00:11:56] The Perfect Pup For the Job: Jennifer discloses what traits they look for in the rescue dogs to make a perfect detection dog.

[00:15:38] How Long on the Job: Jennifer talks about how longs the dogs stay on staff with Rogue Detection Teams

[00:17:40] Types of Work: Jennifer describes the types of work they’ve done over the years

[00:19:43] Good Boy, Filson: Jennifer shares a fun story about a time working in Yosemite with one of her dogs

[00:22:53] Traveling the World: Jennifer talks about some of her favorite places she’s traveled and where’d she return to

[00:25:58] Jungle Work: Jennifer describes some of the work she’s done in rainforests and jungles

Jennifer Hartman (00:00)
but some dogs take a little longer. Like my current partner, Echo, was about five months. And we actually adopted him because he loves fetch. And then when we were, ⁓ you know,

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (00:06)
Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Hartman (00:11)
going through the motions and teaching him, he’s like, you know what? I don’t really want to play ball. So then we had to, you know, we obviously were in love with him. We’re not going to return him to the shelter. ⁓ And so we just had to think creatively about what he wanted, what he needed. And he’s actually a treat dog. So he gets treats for finding scat in the wild.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (00:22)
Yeah.

There

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (00:42)
This is a different kind of episode, but I think you’ll enjoy it as much as I did Jennifer Hartman is the guest this week. She is part of the Rogue Detection Teams, which is a group of handlers and rescued dogs who go across the globe.

And the dogs sniff out information for scientists. So whether it’s for endangered species, rare species, they use these dogs to gather information so they can learn more about the species and how to protect them, or just in general, learn more about them. Maybe we don’t know enough about them.

I’m a little upset that I didn’t know that this was a career option, but that’s okay. I still got to speak to Jennifer Hartman about it and live a little vicariously through her and what she does. And I hope you enjoy this episode and let’s get into it.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (01:30)
hello Jennifer. Thank you so much for joining me today to talk about your incredible dogs. I’m so excited for this episode. I’m a big dog lover and everything that they can do. So I’m so glad you’re here. How is everything going?

Jennifer Hartman (01:46)
⁓ fantastic. I actually have one of my pups right here with me. He’s helping me with the podcast.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (01:50)
Aww. I love that,

I love that. What’s the dog’s name?

Jennifer Hartman (01:56)
His name’s Phil Sin.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (01:58)
Billson, Billson? ⁓ did I hear that right? ⁓ I love that. I love that. How cute. How cute. Well, before we even get into the dogs, though, I just want to know where are you located? I’m sure you have a home base, even though I know you travel a lot.

Jennifer Hartman (01:59)
Yeah, Filson. Like the wool company. ⁓

Yeah, we’re located in Rice, Washington, and no one’s ever heard of it, but it’s two and a half hours north of Spokane, and we’re right on the Canadian and Idaho border in that northeast corner.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (02:20)
No.

Okay.

Now you didn’t grow up in that area though.

Jennifer Hartman (02:32)
No, actually I’m from Colorado originally. Born in Fort Collins and raised in Boulder, but I did live on the East Coast for a little bit. We spent some time in Connecticut. kind of, I feel like I don’t really call any place my home anymore. You know, it’s just kind of a nomad. wherever my pillow ends up, you know.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (02:35)
Okay.

nice!

Yeah, the whole country is your home, that’s fine.

Yeah, seriously.

Now, the work that you do includes a lot of, you know, being outdoors and focused on conservation. when you grew up, was that a big emphasis in your household growing up or your parents being on that?

Jennifer Hartman (03:11)
Surprisingly, no, but not in a, I mean, I think we grew up in a household that we were aware of that and it was important, but it wasn’t like my parents were biologists or anything like that. So it it kind of in the background and I just grew up reading stories about the outdoors and was always really inspired by those stories. And I was like, oh, that adventuring is for other people, not me.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (03:25)
Gotcha.

Jennifer Hartman (03:40)
So I would just live vicariously through these stories. And I think we went camping once when I was a child. And I remember it being really cold and I didn’t like digging the hole, you know. So honestly, I didn’t have a lot of experience before I my way into this field.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (03:50)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

this is a great segue though to talk about your line of work. If you could explain to the audience exactly what you do and how awesome it is.

Jennifer Hartman (04:08)
This part is tough for me because I’m like, how do I make it succinct? ⁓ But I work with rescue dogs. We adopt each of our dogs from shelters and they all love to play fetch. And we utilize their desire to play fetch to help us find data in the wild. And data can be anything from poop, from wildlife.

to other things like invasive species or toxins or viruses. So it’s really diverse and the dogs help us with their sense of smell and lead us to all this information. And we don’t have to see the wildlife, call her the wildlife. So it’s what’s called a non-invasive ⁓ research methodology.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (04:52)
I’m telling you, dogs are just so incredible. They do so many different jobs out there that I’m just, every time I learn about them, I’m just so impressed.

Jennifer Hartman (04:54)
Yes.

Me too.

mean, honestly, I’m shocked by some of the things I hear that dogs are doing. And I mean, I shouldn’t be. I’ve been doing this for two plus decades, but it’s really amazing what they can smell and sniff out for us.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (05:16)
Yeah, they’re

so they’re so great. So how did you get into this line of work then since you didn’t grow up kind of being an outdoorsy person?

Jennifer Hartman (05:23)
I, it’s kind of funny. ⁓ I think my, my sister was a big influence on me. And, ⁓ I remember she did two things that were pretty pivotal. One was when I was in college, she said, you should go study abroad in New Zealand. And I was like, ⁓ okay. I, you know, I always wanted to study abroad, but I was thinking, you know, Europe or Australia. She’s like, New Zealand. And I was like, where’s New Zealand? You know, this was, this was.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (05:48)
No, but New Zealand, yeah.

Jennifer Hartman (05:53)
well before Lord of the Rings movies came out. I was a big movie fan.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (05:54)
Wait, ever see, you

ever see, what is it, last week tonight with John Oliver and he always like jokes about how no one knows where New Zealand is?

Jennifer Hartman (06:05)
No, I

have seen John Oliver, but I haven’t seen that bit that he does.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (06:10)
Yeah,

every once in a he brings up and he’s like, and this map doesn’t even include New Zealand and you didn’t notice.

Jennifer Hartman (06:15)
Yeah, it’s

so true though. mean, growing up, I didn’t know. mean, Australia was like big in my mind, but somehow New Zealand slipped my imagination. And I think that’s what’s really, what was really key because I did end up following her advice and going there. And it was the first time I went backpacking. And they have amazing trails there and it’s very friendly to the outdoor community. ⁓ It’s just.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (06:18)
Mm-hmm.

wow, okay.

Jennifer Hartman (06:44)
obviously epically gorgeous and I kind of caught the bug there. But as I kind of hinted at, I’m a big bookworm and I didn’t think I could get a job in the outdoors. I’m an English literature major by background. And so I did this great study abroad in New Zealand and then I came back and was like, you know, when I graduate, what am I going to do? I don’t really want to be a teacher.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (06:48)
Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Jennifer Hartman (07:11)
And my sister, again, was like, you should try the Student Conservation Association. And it’s this great organization. I don’t know if you’ve heard of it. They actually might be based in the East Coast, but they place young students ⁓ in different internships around the country, from Alaska to Hawaii to all across mainland US. And it’s…

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (07:20)
No.

Jennifer Hartman (07:34)
working in national parks, it’s working in national forests, it’s working on research projects, it’s doing wildlife or trail maintenance. It’s really diverse. ⁓ I had never heard of it again, my sister, I don’t know how she knows me better than I know myself. ⁓ But I got, applied to a few and ⁓ I actually got one to research or help study ⁓ Northern Spotted Owls in California.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (07:48)
She’s your guardian angel.

Have fun.

Jennifer Hartman (08:03)
And that’s what did it. That’s that was it. That’s what launched everything. ⁓ And I went out there right after college thinking this is just an internship. It’ll be done in six months and then I’ll have to like join the real world. And here I am 20 years later, I’m still doing work in wildlife.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (08:20)
That’s so crazy.

That’s why I was gonna ask you how long you’ve been doing it. So 20 years, huh?

Jennifer Hartman (08:24)
Yeah, was, I have no, I’ve had no other job except for, I mean, I’ve had little jobs here and there, but it basically launched my career into wildlife biology.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (08:36)
Now, you are, your position is called a bounder, is that correct? Yeah, I looked that up.

Jennifer Hartman (08:42)
yeah, I love that. Yeah. We,

⁓ I think the world would probably know us as canine handlers or in our field, it’s more commonly known as wildlife detection dog handlers. But in our program, rogue detection teams, ⁓ we have come up with a ⁓ more holistic term that we feel describes more what we do in the field.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (08:51)
Okay.

Okay.

Jennifer Hartman (09:10)
⁓ Handler just didn’t, I don’t really handle the dogs, you know, they, they’re so smart. They come to us, ⁓ so motivated. ⁓ they’re our teachers and we really felt, ⁓ that we wanted a more equal, ⁓ title, you know, for like, Handler makes it sound like I know what I’m doing when really the dogs have shown me everything they’ve ever, you know, learned in this field. And, ⁓ so we’re bound to them.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (09:14)
No.

You

Yes.

Jennifer Hartman (09:40)
we’re bound to the environment when we’re bound to the species that we’re surveying for. So ⁓ Bounder just kind of came about organically and fit us more than canine handler.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (09:53)
So what does it take then to be a bounder with rogue dogs?

Jennifer Hartman (09:57)
Ooh,

that’s tough. ⁓ I think everyone… ⁓ It’s funny because I think everyone focuses on the dog, right? For good reason. ⁓ And they think, you must have these like just incredible dogs. And, you know, a lot of people think they must be purebreds and they must take forever to train. ⁓

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (10:00)
Just asking for a friend because I’m wondering

Yeah. Yeah.

Jennifer Hartman (10:24)
And really, like I said, mean, we adopt our dogs from shelters, they’re all mutts or mixed breeds. ⁓ And they learn pretty fast because they’re really motivated. And as the person, that’s the hard part. Finding our boundaries is a challenge for us. And it takes someone who has a really diverse but odd ⁓ set of skills.

So we’re looking for people who love to hike, obviously, but we’re not really on trails a lot. So lot of off trail hiking, people have to love field work. They have to be empathetic and compassionate and patient because the dogs that we adopt ⁓ are typically on euthanasial lists for being too much untrainable, unadoptable because of their high drive. So we need people who are really open to

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (10:50)
Yeah.

wow.

Jennifer Hartman (11:20)
being led and taught by a dog as opposed to I’m going to structure this dog in this way so that they’re like obedient and they go out and they’re good canine citizen. Because we actually want our dogs to be curious and explore and we have to support that. ⁓ So it’s kind of a really big mind shift for I think how maybe many people think about our relationships with dogs. ⁓

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (11:42)
Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Hartman (11:48)
And we camp, we camp a lot. So people have to not mind not showering, not seeing your friends and family for a while, know, living off the grid. ⁓ So it’s kind of finding those people who have all those little unique skill sets is tough for us, but we have a good team.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (11:56)
Gotcha.

you

Now you were talking about the dogs, you know, so I was going to ask you, like, what do you look for in the dog? I know you said that they need to enjoy fetch. It looks like on your website, it seems like you have a lot of like maybe cattle breed dog mixes. is that who you’re looking for or is that just happens to be the ones that you end up rescuing?

Jennifer Hartman (12:17)
Yeah.

That’s a good question. ⁓ It’s a little both. We aren’t breed specific. ⁓ So we’ve had any number of breeds come through our program in the past 20 years. ⁓ For whatever reason, we end up with a lot of cattle dogs because ⁓ they’re adorable as puppies. People get them and they’re like, wow.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (12:34)
Okay.

Yeah,

Jennifer Hartman (12:57)
this dog’s too much.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (12:57)
and they’re a lot.

Jennifer Hartman (12:58)
Yeah. And ⁓ actually my partner and the fellow ⁓ co-founder of the program, his first dog was a cattle dog. And I think ⁓ people would see pictures of him with Gator and would be like, you know, ⁓ wow, like they like cattle dogs. So then we started getting a lot of inquiries from cattle dog rescues about like, hey, we’ve got a cattle dog for you.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (13:25)
you

Jennifer Hartman (13:25)
And before

you knew it, it kind of snowballed and actually Filston is a cattle dog too and my other partner is a cattle dog and my first working dog was a cattle dog. So ⁓ it’s just kind of happened, but we’re not, you know, we’ve had labs, border collies, ⁓ you know, some breeds that we don’t even know the name of. They’re so mixed. Yeah.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (13:42)
Okay.

A true mutt, right?

Now, how long does it take to train the dogs then to do this work?

Jennifer Hartman (13:56)
⁓ it’s not too long. ⁓ every dog’s different. So some dogs might be ready to be put in the field pretty immediately because they’re, just so driven. Like this, this spring, this past spring, we adopted three dogs and one of them Merlin was pretty much ready to go almost as soon as we got him. Like he’s so smart. He’s a border collie mix. He just was like, okay, I get it people. I know what you want me to find now. Let’s go do it.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (14:09)
Okay.

wow.

You

Jennifer Hartman (14:26)
And

like I said, it’s more teaching than people that takes us a while. It takes about two years for us to get a bounder at a level where, you know, they really can understand dog communication and field work and, ⁓ you know, data collection.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (14:29)
Yeah, yeah.

Jennifer Hartman (14:43)
So, but some dogs take a little longer. Like my current partner, Echo, was about five months. And we actually adopted him because he loves fetch. And then when we were, ⁓ you know,

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (14:50)
Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Hartman (14:55)
going through the motions and teaching him, he’s like, you know what? I don’t really want to play ball. So then we had to, you know, we obviously were in love with him. We’re not going to return him to the shelter. ⁓ And so we just had to think creatively about what he wanted, what he needed. And he’s actually a treat dog. So he gets treats for finding scat in the wild. My first treat dog, yeah.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (15:06)
Yeah.

There you go.

am also motivated by treats, so I understand.

Jennifer Hartman (15:24)
Yes,

aren’t we all? He’s kind of my treat is what I say. So I think also it’s, it might not even be treats. might, and this is sound really cheesy, but a lot of it might just be love. You know, that just that energy we’re pushing out to each other in the field, ⁓ I think is what makes us a great team.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (15:38)
Yeah, no.

Now, how long do the dogs stay on staff for then?

Jennifer Hartman (15:51)
When we adopt, we adopt for life. We typically adopt around one year plus because then we’re not just looking at puppyhood playfulness. We’re looking at, this dog needs a job. And then again, every dog’s different. When we first started, we were told, you know, the dogs needed to retire around seven or eight. ⁓ That’s when most dogs are kind of, that’s like geriatric.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (16:02)
Mm-hmm. Like this is their actual personality, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Hartman (16:20)
But we would get to that age and our dogs, because they’re so fit and so athletic, that’s their peak. They are hitting their stride at seven or eight. They just know what they’re doing. They’re out there. They’re experts. So we kind of started pushing that with our vets, obviously, in full agreement. Like, yeah, these dogs need to be out there. ⁓ And so we’ve actually had dogs who are still doing soft, gentle projects like butterflies and…

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (16:26)
Mm-hmm.

yeah.

Jennifer Hartman (16:50)
other, you know, more gentle field work up until they’re about 13 or 14. Yeah. And then they retire with their main bounder. ⁓ And yeah, I mean, we’ve had dogs live till 18 years old, so pretty long.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (16:56)
wow, that’s awesome, I love that. Aww. Yeah.

That’s incredible. And they

get a really, really good life.

Jennifer Hartman (17:12)
Yeah, we

hope so. We really try. We do our best.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (17:17)
I would

think that’s dream job in the dog world. Like I get to go out and sniff stuff.

Jennifer Hartman (17:20)
I know, and

sniff poop specifically. We get a lot of jokes about like, my dog likes to sniff poop. And we’re like, well, but ours

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (17:30)
different.

Jennifer Hartman (17:32)
yeah, they’re not gonna roll in it. They’re not doing it to eat it. they just want to get their ball. ⁓ But it is a pretty small job.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (17:40)
Now, what kind of missions, I know we were talking about sniffing poop, but also with butterflies. So what kind of missions do you do? Like, what are you looking for? I know that’s probably hard to kind of summarize, but, and where do they take you? All over the world?

Jennifer Hartman (17:57)
Yeah, oh my gosh, they’ve taken me. I’ve been to Africa for this work, Nepal, Vietnam. We just got back from Bhutan but a lot of obviously around the United States and Canada and Mexico. One of the projects I work on for the past six years, seven years is an endangered species called the Sierra Nevada red fox.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (18:24)
Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Hartman (18:25)
And there’s

only about between estimates say between 20 to 40 left. And so they’re one of the most rare mammals, but no one really talks about them. ⁓ I think people think, ⁓ foxes are pests and why do we care about foxes? But this is a high elevation specialist and there’s very few left. ⁓ And then we’ve done everything from bumblebee nests to one of our

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (18:31)
wow.

no. Yeah.

Jennifer Hartman (18:54)
projects this year was invasive crabs, so we’re working in tidal flats. We’ve done ⁓ whale research, so looking for floating whale scad on the water, and a lot of carnivore research, like wolves, ⁓ grizzly bears, bobcat, coyote, ⁓ but we’ve also done ungulate, like moose and caribou. We work in all four seasons. ⁓

And yeah, it’s incredibly diverse. we’re, you know, we’re one of many programs around the world. So this is a growing ⁓ methodology being utilized by researchers everywhere.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (19:29)
Mm-hmm.

So do you have any fun,

stories you want to share like anything good like fun stories about Echo or Filson that you know any interesting trips to report on.

Jennifer Hartman (19:43)
Gosh, I

have so many stories, but when someone asks you like, I don’t know which one to tell. I’ll talk about Filson. He’s retiring this year, but I’m pretty proud of him, especially he’s gonna be, he’s actually in two books this year, just quickly enough. Yeah, and both,

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (20:03)
That’s exciting!

Jennifer Hartman (20:07)
for his work, well, on the Sierra Nevada Red Fox, but specifically in Yosemite National Park. And my first project with him actually, and I wasn’t planning on it, I was supposed to go do this research with my dog Scooby, and I found out, this was back in 2018, that he had cancer. And it was really, really hard for me. And it’s one of the things we don’t really talk about in this field is,

you know, when your dog gets sick, but we’re on a project, you know, do we not go on the project, but we’re under, like all these things. And so it was really just a crazy time for me. And ⁓ I had to transition to working with Filson, who I hadn’t worked with before. I loved him. He was in our program, but ⁓ he wasn’t my main dog. And ⁓ this was a big project. Like we were going to be backpacking through Yosemite. ⁓

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (20:45)
Yeah.

Jennifer Hartman (21:05)
⁓ there, you know, it’s mostly roadless. And so had he ever been in a tent? I don’t know. and so I was struggling with all of these things. ⁓ you know, Scooby being sick and working with a new dog and we’re like hiking into Yosemite for the first time. And I remember being in the back country with him and just sharing all those firsts with him, you know, it was, it just, ⁓ it was almost like healing.

to me, you know, being out there with him. And he’s just this shy, sweet, affectionate boy. He has a broken tail and, you know, not very many. I think he must have chewed on chain link fence before we adopted him. has very, you know, few teeth. And, ⁓ you know, he’s not a dog that I think, I mean, everyone in our program loves him, but, you know, he was free on on Craigslist, like no one.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (22:00)
⁓

Jennifer Hartman (22:00)
wanted

him. And this is a dog that ⁓ took me under his wing and guided me when I was thinking, like, here I have to take this dog, I don’t know, and into the backcountry of Yosemite. How are we going to do this? And he really supported me. ⁓ And that’s kind of the story of a of our dogs in our program. But Filson’s been my main ⁓ co-woofer for the past seven years. He’s been by my side through a lot.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (22:30)
⁓ and dogs, dogs are just so intuitive, too. Like, I feel like, you know, they just know what you need. ⁓ So how lucky for you two to both partner together? Yeah, you’re both I think you both probably were what each other needed at the time. Right. So. Yeah.

Jennifer Hartman (22:39)
Yeah.

Yeah.

I like to think so.

He ⁓ really got me through some tough times.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (22:53)
Yeah, dogs. man, I just love dogs so much. ⁓ Just switching gears just slightly because you have traveled the world and you are on a lot of trails and places like that. Are there any places that you’ve gone for work that you would love to return to, like in a more relaxing way to maybe do some hiking or exploring around there?

Jennifer Hartman (22:56)
I’m

I think that’s what’s so cool about this work is for the most part we go places that most people aren’t going. So they’re not on like your, you know, top hike list, you know? And I do get to see some really neat and different ecosystems. ⁓ But funnily enough, one of the places that has just stolen my heart ⁓ is a very popular

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (23:26)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Hartman (23:48)
place to go hiking. It’s for that Red Fox work actually that I was sharing about. It’s in the Eastern Sierras. ⁓ And I could just get lost in the Eastern Sierras. You go over your first saddle and you see just all of the mountains spread out in front of you and you think like this is endless. It just goes on forever and it’s beautiful and it’s jagged and it’s snow capped and it’s rugged and ⁓

It just really makes my imagination just go wild with all the places that you could explore back there. So that is a definite place that I would love to go back and not work, even though I feel pretty darn lucky that I get to go there for work. ⁓ But like you kind of hinted at, there’s pressure when you’re out there for work.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (24:39)
you

Yeah.

Jennifer Hartman (24:46)
not out there sightseeing, I’m out there on a job. ⁓ so being able to go back and just maybe spend a week at a lake would be incredible.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (24:58)
Like anyone who travels for work, mean, even if they, you know, they’re going to like a major city and they go out for dinner one night, like, but they don’t really get to enjoy the environment, the area, wherever they’re traveling. So that’s why was wondering with you too, because, you know, you’re working. Yeah. Like you said, you’re working. It’s hard to relax and really take it all in.

Jennifer Hartman (25:14)
And I mean, yeah, I

think as I think a place I should have mentioned is Bhutan. I mean, like you said, going there for work is one thing and we I think we had like one or two days off and that was just it wasn’t really, you know, days off. can’t just hop in a car and go hiking. But that’s a place like the Himalayas would definitely be a place that I would just love to hike and again, get lost in for a while.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (25:28)
Mm-hmm.

No.

so nice.

have you done any, like rainforest work with the, with the dogs? Have you been in that kind of environment with them? Yeah. Yeah. Any.

Jennifer Hartman (25:51)
Yeah, like jungle, you mean? Yeah.

⁓ Usually when we’re doing subtropical work, we try to go in the dry season. But I have worked ⁓ in Cambodia to do tiger work. And Nepal was kind of that way, and Vietnam. And we’re talking leeches and howler monkeys and skittas. it’s just, yeah, the snake.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (26:02)
Okay.

That’s so cool. Ugh. Snakes.

Jennifer Hartman (26:21)
⁓ It’s got it all. ⁓

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (26:24)
That’s so cool, though. Like, I keep like picturing like you’re like on mountains and things like that and like forest, but I was like, wait, do they also do like jungle work? Like, that’s really cool. That’s really cool.

Jennifer Hartman (26:31)
Yeah. Yeah, it doesn’t, we

don’t talk about it as much. Those are fewer and farther in between projects, you really rare. ⁓ And hopefully as the methodology grows, we’ll start seeing dogs helping in these ecosystems more. ⁓ But they’re hard. Like subtropical work is incredibly challenging. I mean, our samples degrade almost overnight. And honestly, there’s a lot of poaching.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (26:40)
Mm-hmm.

I’m sure.

wow.

Jennifer Hartman (27:00)
So there’s the challenges with managing both mentally and emotionally the fact that you’re out there to do this work, but ⁓ it’s disappearing literally in real time in front of you. there’s a lot in the tropical work that’s tough. I mean, it happens everywhere, but it’s more in your face, I think, ⁓ when we travel to some of these countries.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (27:01)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Wow, my goodness. I’m just like so fascinated by your work and what you do and what the dogs do. And I just think it’s just so interesting. So thank you so much for just sharing, you know, this little bit about it. I appreciate it. Yeah.

Jennifer Hartman (27:41)
thank you so much.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (27:44)
So if people wanted to kind of learn more about what you do and your company and follow along with your adventures with your dogs, are there places that they can do that? Are you on social media?

Jennifer Hartman (27:56)
We are, we firmly believe in science communication. We don’t do as good a job as we wish, because we’re always in the field, but we’re on most of the platforms, like Instagram, Facebook. We do have a YouTube channel. We’re not on TikTok. But yeah, or we’re on threads and blue sky, if that’s more your style.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (28:03)
Yeah, it’s hard to keep up with you.

Now is it all like rogue dogs or what or?

Jennifer Hartman (28:26)
Yeah, there’s a combination between rogue detection teams or rogue dogs, but either any of those search ⁓ will bring us up.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (28:30)
Okay. Okay.

And then what’s your website again?

Jennifer Hartman (28:38)
roguedogs.org. ⁓

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (28:41)
Rogue dogs that work got it. All right. So before I let you go, I always ask all my guests about just like my final question ⁓ just about hiking and if you could only do a specific kind of trail for the rest of your life. Now you’ve been everywhere. So this is like, you know, like what Lauren, why you only give me these two options. But my two options are would you only hike to scenic views or would you only hike?

Jennifer Hartman (29:03)
You

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (29:10)
to waterfalls.

Jennifer Hartman (29:18)
Maybe waterfalls funnily enough. I just think they’re in these hidden pockets and you have to work really hard to get to them. Not that you don’t for the views too, but it’s special. know, when you round a corner and then there’s just this water flowing out of it’s gorgeous. Yeah.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (29:30)
But it’s different, I understand. Yeah.

Yeah, I totally get that. totally get that. Well,

Jennifer, thank you so much for spending your time. I know you’re busy and you’re recovering from your travel, so I do really appreciate it. And thank Filson for standing by as, you know, as moderator. Give him a scratch behind the ear for me. ⁓

Jennifer Hartman (29:46)
No.

Yeah, wish he was, he’s over there napping otherwise. I definitely will.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (30:01)
But again, thank you so much and thank you for the work that you and your team are doing. I know it’s extremely important. We need to, you know, be aware of what’s going on with this planet. So thank you again for all of your work and and thanks for being here.

Jennifer Hartman (30:16)
Wow, thank you. This is so, such a treat.

Hiking in Alaska With Kierre Childers

Lauren Stites — Tue, 17 Mar 2026 11:00:00 +0000

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Hiking in Alaska

Is hiking in Alaska on your bucket list? Then you’ll love this episode of Her Side of the Trail featuring trail guide Kierre Childers.

Kierre has lived in Palmer, Alaska, for a decade and began her company, Revel Treks & Tours, in 2021. Her tours include multi-day backpacking trips as well as shorter day hikes, and also farm and history tours.

During the episode, Kierre shares some of her tips and things to know before you take a hike in Alaska, and also some of her favorite places to hike in the state.

What We Talk About This Episode

[00:01:26] Home Sweet Home: Kierre describes where she lives in Alaska

[00:02:05] Living in Alaska: Kierre talks about how long she’s lived in Alaska and if she’s made “sourdough” status

[00:03:30] Childhood: Kierre shares about her upbringing in Indiana

[00:06:03] Trail Guiding: Kierre discusses how and why she started her hiking guide company, Revel Treks & Tours

[00:10:54] Clientele: Kierre talks about the different clients she has, including repeat customers

[00:11:37] Hiking Near Palmer: Kierre shares what hiking is like near her hometown, Palmer, Alaska

[00:14:30] First Time Hiker Tips for Alaska: Kierre gives some tips and important things to know before you head out on the trail in Alaska

[00:16:53] Best Time of Year to Hike in Alaska: Kierre describes her ideal time to go hiking in Alaska

[00:19:35] Lessons on the Trail: Kierre talks about some of the hard lessons she’s learned while hiking in Alaska

[00:22:08] Can’t Miss Alaskan Hikes: Kierre shares some of her favorite places to hike in Alaska

Kierre Childers (00:00)
A big kind of motivator for starting a business was also feeling like tourism in Alaska, we do such a good job ⁓ of giving visitors these grand experiences.

and sometimes we forget that the locals that live here don’t always get access to those experiences. And so I really wanted ⁓ I really wanted a company that also gave back to the community.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (00:32)
This episode I’m speaking with Kierre Childers.

Kierre speaks about what it’s like to hike in Alaska and also what inspired her to start her company, Revel Treks and Tours, five years ago. So let’s get into it.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (00:42)
Hello, Kierre, thank you for joining me today. I can’t wait to talk to you about hiking in Alaska. How are you doing today?

Kierre Childers (00:50)
Good, yeah, really good. Winter hasn’t quite arrived here, so we’re in the brace for that, but I’m enjoying the prolonged fall.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (00:59)
That’s nice. Yeah. And we just had the time change. So obviously that affects you. What time does the sun set where you are?

Kierre Childers (01:06)
So we, gosh, I want to say last night at set before 5.30. ⁓ It’s not bad, but we’re losing about five minutes of light a day. So like come Thanksgiving, you’re like, whoa, we are feeling it.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (01:12)
Okay, that’s not bad. No.

And

where are you in Alaska? Where are you located?

Kierre Childers (01:26)
So I’m based in Palmer, Alaska, which is about if you know where Anchorage is, we’re about an hour north of Anchorage.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (01:33)
Mm-hmm.

Okay, okay.

So are you in the mountains of Alaska or is it still a little bit more of the flat-ish area?

Kierre Childers (01:45)
Yeah,

so Palmer sits in, ⁓ I love Palmer, because Palmer sits in a big glacial valley. ⁓ we actually sit between two mountain ranges, but where I am in town is flat. But I can like look out my window and see mountains in any direction,

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (01:52)
Okay.

Nice, okay.

Now, are you from Alaska originally?

Kierre Childers (02:05)
I’m not. yeah, I grew up in Indiana, actually. So not too far from you or you’re at these days. And, and I came to Alaska about 10 years ago. So I came up to a volunteer on a trail crew in Willow, which is even further North and then just kind of fell in love. ⁓ so yeah, so this is right around year 10 now and depending on who you ask. So Alaska has the jargon in Alaska. You’re either a chichaco or a sourdough.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (02:12)
Yeah, yeah.

Kierre Childers (02:35)
So if you’re at Chichaco, you’re like new to Alaska and you haven’t really like earned your street cred. And if you’re a long time you’re sourdough and depending on who you ask, I’ve reached sourdough status because I’ve made it through 10 winters, but some people still like, she’s in Chichaco.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (02:40)
Okay.

Do they

do they give out like pins for that so you can like put it like like I’m a sourdough now Don’t mess with me

Kierre Childers (02:53)
No,

think no they don’t but that’s a great idea although I feel like if anybody had to advertise sourdough like you feel like

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (03:05)
that’s true,

then you’re probably not a sourdough yet.

Kierre Childers (03:09)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (03:12)
love that though. Where

my parents live, there’s a lot of ⁓ transplants there too. they call them wash ashores because they live on an island. So they’re like, they’ve been washed ashore.

Kierre Childers (03:21)
Wow! my gosh!

That’s great.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (03:26)
Yeah, my parents were a washer shore, but now they’ve been there 20 years. So I think they, they count their sour doughs equivalent. Yeah.

Kierre Childers (03:30)
Okay.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (03:34)
so you obviously are an active hiker. Is that something that you did growing up to? you do Indiana? Actually, like the Midwest has surprisingly a lot of great hiking.

Kierre Childers (03:44)
It does. I didn’t know about any of them growing up in Indiana. So like as an adult, I come back and I’m like, my gosh, there’s this beautiful trail. Like, why did we not ever come here when I was a kid? ⁓ Yeah. So I would say we weren’t like a hiking family at all, but we were, we loved to be outside. So I grew up, my mom volunteered in a park, not far from where my, house was in town and my dad would take us mushroom hunting, you know, in spring. Yeah. So I, I,

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (04:10)
That sounds fun.

Kierre Childers (04:14)
I’d like to say that that really instilled the love of outdoors and then ⁓ that just kind of evolved in young adulthood.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (04:21)
I kinda wanna hear more about the mushroom hunting.

Kierre Childers (04:23)
What the mushrooms?

I mean, nothing crazy. Morels, you know, we would go hunting for morels if you know what those are. But yeah, we just, you know, putz around the woods. It’s such a nice way to spend time outside, like foraging. ⁓ And that has definitely carried over in Alaska. It’s a very foraging heavy ⁓ state because there’s so much here to harvest. But ⁓ yeah, it’s great to just like have a kind of like a mission, you know.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (04:30)
Yeah, yeah, that’s so fun!

Mm-hmm.

Kierre Childers (04:53)
for something when you’re outside,

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (04:54)
I always like pointing out when I don’t point out, but I, we find the different fungus along along the way. And I like it because I just think they’re just so unique looking half the time. You know, some of them so colorful and you’re like, what is that? You’re like, ⁓ that’s, you know, chicken of the forest. Like, OK.

Kierre Childers (05:04)
my gosh. Yeah.

Yeah,

not I’m definitely not a mushroom expert, but I have gone out with folks who know way more than me and that I always appreciate because you’re just like, how like this is this like a lifetime of learning to to know all of these things? Like, I have a hard enough time with berries in Alaska, let alone throwing in mushrooms and other stuff. So yeah.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (05:31)
What?

It is interesting the information that people accumulate in their brain. feel like you know you look like little filing cabinet back there.

Kierre Childers (05:42)
Yeah, yeah, my filing

cabin is not very organized. Yeah, totally.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (05:46)
No, neither is mine. Sometimes I’m like, hold on, like I’m looking, I’m looking, I can find it, I swear. So

you own a guiding company in Alaska. Can you tell me a little bit about it and what you offer people who come to you?

Kierre Childers (06:03)
Yeah, so I own it’s called Revel Treks and tours so Revel with a V as in Victor ⁓ And we were based in Palmer We do like privately guided day trips around the area and then we also do small group Packages and we’ll do custom trips, but I’d say all of our stuff is pretty active so this is we’re going into the fifth year of the business

And yeah, most of what we do involves some sort of outdoor activity, but I have noticed the longer that the business has been here. You know, when we first started, it was like back country trips, like camping a tent for five days and not everybody wants to experience Alaska like that. So we have shifted to do more ⁓ kind of educational stuff. So we have like some farm tours that we do.

We do some history focused stuff, but it really is all, I’d say whether you’re hiking or learning something, just is, the trips are designed to connect you to where you are in Alaska, which I think is so important. So if you’re out for out on a trail, we want to give you a geology lesson and talk about the glaciers. And if we visit a farm, we want you to meet a farmer and have them talk about, you know, what makes farming challenging in Alaska. ⁓ and so, yeah, so that’s kind of the, I would say the nature of what we do.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (07:25)
And you said you started that five years ago?

Kierre Childers (07:28)
Let’s see, this is the end of year four, so 2026 will be year five. Yeah.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (07:34)
Okay, very cool. And what made you decide to start this company?

Kierre Childers (07:38)
Yeah, so I ⁓ had been guiding in Denali and I really ⁓ like I feel like my the whole time I’ve been in Alaska, I’ve spent, you know, a lot of time outdoors here and just like developed my skills. I had guided previously before coming up here and other places and thought like, man, I like I just love being outside. It’s so cool. But guiding in Denali was incredible because

you’re in this beautiful place, you get to share the mountains with people. mean, like, my gosh. I knew I really loved, I loved connecting people to that, but I was really struggling living in Denali. So the year-round population there is really small. Like I want to say 300 people year-round. There lots of people.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (08:09)
Yeah. I can’t even imagine.

Wow, okay. I wouldn’t think it

to be that small, yeah.

Kierre Childers (08:32)
it’s small. then there’s like an influx of people in the summer during high tourism season because we need all this infrastructure. But then when, when that season’s over, you know, you’ve got really like eight months of very quiet ⁓ solitude. And it was just after three years up there, I thought, man, I don’t know if I, if this is where I want my home to be. And so that was part of what one was like pulling me to come back to Palmer because I had lived here before.

⁓ And then I knew I liked guiding. I knew I liked bringing people together. ⁓

A big kind of motivator for starting a business was also feeling like tourism in Alaska, we do such a good job ⁓ of giving visitors these grand experiences. And people come here because it’s their bucket list trip. they want to see all the best that Alaska has to offer.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (09:24)
Mm-hmm.

Kierre Childers (09:30)
We spend so much energy on giving that and sometimes we forget that the locals that live here don’t always get access to those experiences. And so I really wanted ⁓ I really wanted a company that also gave back to the community.

And I wasn’t sure what that would look like when I started. But it’s what it is. What it has turned into is we do like community hikes. We have monthly ladies hikes. We have monthly seniors hikes. We do.

We’ve done backpacking courses. We’ve done, gosh, all kinds of classes, like how to dehydrate food. And those are all available to the community. that’s been pretty consistent since the beginning. yeah,

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (10:15)
love that you do so much for the community. I think that’s that’s excellent. Yeah. sometimes they are kind of like, put off to the side. You know, the the tourists come first. But no, it’s nice that the community has opportunities with you as well.

Kierre Childers (10:18)
Thanks.

I think people that live in Alaska, everyone assumes we all know how to do the things. Like, because we’re here and the longer that I have lived here, the more people are like, I’d love to do that, but I don’t have people to go with or I’d love to do that. I’ve never gone, I’ve never carried a backpack before. So I think that’s been really ⁓ cool just to see that that

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (10:32)
Mm, yeah.

Kierre Childers (10:50)
locals are appreciative of those kinds of experiences.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (10:54)
Now, in addition to the community and the locals that you work with, are a lot of the other clients that you have, are they lot of like first time visitors to Alaska or do you get a mix?

Kierre Childers (11:04)
We get a mix. ⁓ would say most folks that come up on our visitor trips are first time visitors and then a handful every summer of repeats. There’s, yeah, could name probably on two hands folks that have come back ⁓ multiple times and do like other hikes with us. I’m like, my gosh, this is great.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (11:25)
That’s nice. Well,

that’s like a great reference right there. You know that you’re doing your job right when people are coming back. ⁓

Kierre Childers (11:30)
Yeah.

Yep. That’s a good sign. That’s yeah, for

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (11:37)
Now, what is it like hiking where you live?

What kind of

terrain are we dealing with? What kind of elevation are we dealing with?

Kierre Childers (11:44)
Yeah,

that’s such a hard question to answer. And I would say there are many options depending on what you want to do. So Palmer and that that’s really Alaska too, like the hiking here is so varied. when I talk about Palmer, totally different than if you were to go up to Denali, totally different if you go up to Fairbanks. ⁓ Yeah, which is which is great. Like if you love hiking, Alaska can offer so much because you can see so many different types of terrain where we are.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (11:50)
Okay.

yeah.

Kierre Childers (12:14)
Uh, so Palmer sits pretty close to sea level and then those two ranges around us. Um, so we have the two Gatch mountains to our South. So those are the mountains that people kind of consider Anchorage’s playground. Um, and they’re there. There’s some big mountains back there. lot of the front country trails, um, are like well-maintained, uh, kind of dirt trails. Although I think for folks coming from the lower 48, they feel rugged.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (12:19)
Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Kierre Childers (12:42)
For me, the Chugach trails are like, these are like some of the nicest trails in Alaska, but they can still feel rugged. And then ⁓ to the north of us, north of Palmer is the Talkeena Mountains. And those mountains, ⁓ there’s a big state park that’s very close to Palmer called Hatcher Pass. And Hatcher Pass has lots of trails. ⁓ And then within both of those,

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (12:42)
Okay.

Yeah ⁓

yes.

Kierre Childers (13:11)
ranges, you also have backcountry access. And so that’s where you’re getting into trailless wilderness and that for the most part, treeline is right around 3000 feet in this area. the peaks in this area go, I mean, I’ll say generalized, like four to 5000. And so you can climb and then get to tundra and then walking trailless is very easy because

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (13:24)
Okay.

Kierre Childers (13:39)
there’s no vegetation above 3000 feet. Yeah, yeah. I would say as a general rule of thumb, Alaskans don’t believe in switchbacks, which makes hiking like just a suffer fest usually to get above the trees. You’re just like, well, who built this trail? But yeah, but once you’re above tree line, it’s great. So yeah.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (13:41)
There’s nothing in your way.

Huh!

Yeah.

you were saying like, the trails are really rugged. And I’m like, kind of sounds like the Northeast. And then you’re saying there’s no switchbacks. I’m like, definitely the Northeast. if you hear people talk about hiking in like New Hampshire, I mean, it’s literally like straight up the mountain over rocks. You’re just climbing over boulders to get straight up the mountain. There’s no switchbacks. And then you’re at the top, yay.

Kierre Childers (14:21)
Yeah, yeah. Okay,

that’s awesome. Yeah, I haven’t done any hiking in the Northeast, but that’s pretty, that sounds very similar to Alaska.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (14:30)
Yeah, it feels like maybe they’re cousins. I don’t know.

So if you are a first time visitor to at least your region of Alaska, I know it’s a massive state, so you can’t cover all of that, but in the Palmer area and then the, you know, just the hiking nearby, what would you?

tell a first time visitor before heading out on the trail? What are some of the most important things for them to know? I’m thinking bears. Number one.

Kierre Childers (14:54)
Yeah, I would say…

Yeah, bears

are ⁓ definitely be bear prepared, ⁓ which can be really intimidating for for first time visitors if you’re not coming from bear country. ⁓ So we’re I’m a big fan of bear spray as a deterrent, which is like really strong pepper spray. ⁓ The thing that I have noticed with folks that visit is they don’t

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (15:04)
Yeah

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Kierre Childers (15:22)
If you need your bear spray, you’re going to need your bear spray. And so you need, you want it accessible, right? And so the number of times where I’ve been out hiking with folks and their bear spray is like in their water bottle pocket or in their backpack. And I’m like, it’s not going to do you any good if it’s back there. So, ⁓ yeah. So carry bear spray and there’s great resources online about how to use that. I mean, if you’re hiking on your own, there’s, there’s some really good, ⁓ resources just to get prepared on that front. ⁓ another thing.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (15:28)
Yes.

Yeah

Kierre Childers (15:50)
as far as Alaska goes is knowing, well, anticipating you might not have cell service. So bringing in reach or some sort of emergency communication device, not everywhere. I’d say we really have decent coverage, but if you’re doing longer hikes and going into the back country, then anticipating that you’re going to lose cell coverage is pretty important. and then

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (15:57)
That’s a good point, yeah.

Kierre Childers (16:15)
you know, for all your like 10 essentials, first aid layers, all that stuff is pretty critical for Alaska as well, just because of the mountains, our weather is really dynamic. I’ve been out over the course of the day and gone from like a 65 sunny day to a raining and 45 degree day, and then it might snow six inches that night if we’re tent camping. So just knowing that like, yes, anything’s possible and

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (16:38)
Yeah.

Kierre Childers (16:43)
That’s really probably the most common question we get is like, what should I pack? What should I wear? You know, for going out for a for our hike, what should I, what should I put in my pack? And like all of it, pack all your layers. Bring your rain jacket. it doesn’t look like it’s going to rain. I know. Just trust me. Bring it. If you don’t bring it, it will rain like it never fails. Yeah. ⁓ yeah. So I would say those are three, ⁓ three big things about, yeah. And those are applicable for here or other parts of the state.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (16:53)
You’re like, pack for four seasons.

It will rain.

Is there a best time of year? Speaking of like, you know, weather and whatnot, is our best time of year to hike in Alaska, at least where you are?

Kierre Childers (17:20)
Yeah, I have a really soft spot for hiking in September here. ⁓ If you further north, it can already be winter, but for Palmer specifically, ⁓ September hiking is incredible because the berry bushes are turning red on the mountains and then the aspen trees and the birch trees are all turning yellow. So we don’t have like a Midwest or Northeast kind of fall colors explosion, but we have

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (17:39)
Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Kierre Childers (17:49)
subtle colors I would say and yeah it’s really pretty so that’s I think September is pretty epic.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (17:51)
It sounds beautiful.

Would you say like, is Labor Day like, Labor Day like a good time or like later in September or it doesn’t really matter?

Kierre Childers (18:02)
⁓

Yeah, I would say Labor Day into mid-September is really great. If folks are coming up to do lots of things, then getting into mid-September can be tough because Denali pretty much closes around mid-September. ⁓ And so I think when to come would depend on how much you want to do while you’re here. But for Palmer specifically, between Labor Day and mid-September is really lovely.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (18:17)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

have you been pretty much hiking in Alaska all 10 years that you’ve been there

Kierre Childers (18:33)
I had been hiking before and spent, I would say hiking and backpacking probably now 15 years of, you know, experience around, around the world. But Alaska, yeah, definitely the last 10 years. So the trail crew stuff, that was a lot of hiking and hiking in with equipment to manage to work on trails.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (18:42)
Okay.

Kierre Childers (18:56)
And then after that, I had an office job for a bit, what was still hiking lots on the weekends and doing outside stuff. And then also accumulating like Alaska, the back country element of Alaska is very intimidating. And so I was also kind of scooping up certifications like, you know, wilderness first responder and my swift water and my, then my EMT, like trying to build confidence in the outdoors. so that also, thanks. Yeah. That’s also been a.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (19:20)
Very cool.

Kierre Childers (19:24)
10 year process, I would say. so, ⁓ yeah, I feel way, when I look back at where I was 10 years ago, it’s like, my gosh, you’ve come such a long way, so.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (19:35)
Were there any bad experiences, I’m going to say? Any hard lessons that you’ve learned on the trail?

Kierre Childers (19:41)
Yeah,

I think I don’t know if it was a bad lesson, but I think particularly with backcountry trips, there’s so many things out of your control. And that’s really Alaska does such a good job, whether you’re remote or on the highway of just kind of being like, ha ha ha, like, I know you had a plan, but that doesn’t work like that.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (19:52)
Mm-hmm.

hahahaha

Kierre Childers (20:08)
So some friends and I, did a big, it was like a, it was a big trip. It was a 60 mile gates of the Arctic trip. So that’s a national park up in Northern Alaska that’s fly in only or super remote. And it was like, we fly into a lake and then they were going to backpack and pack raft 60 miles away from at another lake to where and get picked up there in a week. And, you know, when you’re planning kind of remote stuff, you build.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (20:20)
yes, yes, I know what you’re talking about.

Kierre Childers (20:38)
You build how you think it’s going to go. And then you build alternate plans based on like contingency plans, I would say, and kind of assess your risk. And so we had, I felt like we went into it like, okay, we, have a good game plan if we need a plan B, if we need a plan C and we get there and, ⁓ like every. Yeah. Yeah. It ended up working out fine, but I think our takeaway was, man, we didn’t build in enough flexibility.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (20:57)
Did you need a plan D?

Kierre Childers (21:07)
for days where we just didn’t move as much as we thought we were going to. the, it was a mixed sport hiking and pack rafting, but every creek crossing that we thought we’d be able to hike across, we ended up needing to blow our boats up and cross. And so it just, yeah, so like we had estimated, we’ll cover, you know, six to seven miles days one, two, three.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (21:11)
Mm-hmm.

so that’s gonna take more time and…

Kierre Childers (21:29)
And we, there was a day we covered like three or four miles and we were just so defeated because the water was way higher than what we thought it was going to be. ⁓ and so that was a great lesson. The, what ended up being in our benefit was that because the water was high going in the boats, we were much faster than what we thought. But I think looking back on that trip, if I was going to plan it again, I’d probably put two buffer days that if we were moving slow or if.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (21:38)
Mm-hmm.

Kierre Childers (21:59)
Another thing that happened on that trip was we didn’t fly out ⁓ the day we thought we were going to. We ended up flying a day late because of weather. So all of those variables get amplified once you’re doing remote stuff. And so I think just building in flexibility ⁓ is really important.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (22:08)
Hmm.

do you have a favorite area in Alaska that you’ve hiked in? Is there one where you’re like, if someone’s going to come to the state, like, I mean, obviously the soft spot for your for your hometown.

So maybe that’s it, but if someone’s gonna come to the state and they’re like, I wanna do a good hike, you’re like, this is where you should go.

Kierre Childers (22:30)
Yeah.

Yeah, I would say I love Denali State Park. So Denali State Park is in the Talkeetna Mountains and it’s a huge state park that’s really just south of the National Park. But everybody comes to the National Park and you just, the way to see the mountain if you go that route is you get on a bus and you take the bus on the road. So it feels like you’re sitting, if you’re somebody that likes to be outdoors, Denali State Park is

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (22:41)
Okay.

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Kierre Childers (23:06)
It’s phenomenal and you have the best view of the Alaska range, which is the range that Denali sits in. So you can see that. You can see all the other mountains in the Alaska range on a clear day. should put the asterisk there. Yeah. And you’re in Tundra and there’s blueberry. It’s just, it’s a magical spot. So yeah.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (23:20)
Yeah, it’s always yeah.

That sounds amazing. have found to that. mean, I’ve been to a couple of national parks and I’m not trying to downplay them. I mean, obviously they’re fantastic. But sometimes like the state parks really can just rival the national parks and they’re even better because they don’t have the crowds like like the national parks do.

Kierre Childers (23:45)
Yeah.

Yeah, I feel like that hits the nail on the head with Alaska. I mean, our national parks are incredible, but there are there’s areas that that ⁓ there’s even just like state land and borough land that you can get on and you’re like, this is amazing. And there’s nobody hardly here. Like,

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (23:53)
Of course, yes.

Yeah.

Like, do people not know about this? Like, good. Don’t tell anyone. But well, Kierre I really appreciate you taking the time just to sit here and talk to me about Alaska and hiking in Alaska ⁓ before you go.

Kierre Childers (24:08)
Yeah. ⁓

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (24:21)
you know I’d like to ask everyone if you had could only do one kind of hike for the rest of your life would it be a hike to a waterfall or hike to a view but I’m gonna put a little asterisk in there and be like if there’s an alpine lake that counts too or if there’s something else so tell me I guess if you could only do one hike kind of hike for the rest of your life what kind of hike would that be?

Kierre Childers (24:34)
⁓

Yeah, that’s such a good question. And the Alpine Lake is a curveball because we have some really beautiful lakes. I would say I’m going to stick with view, but I might add a view from a ridge. Like that is that’s my sweet spot in Alaska. Hiking is like to get a good ridge line and you can it’s like view all around. Those are those are my.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (24:57)
Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Kierre Childers (25:12)
favorite. ⁓

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (25:13)
That sounds incredible. I don’t think there’s any wrong answer. So I just like to hear everybody else’s because I like to hear everyone’s reasoning behind it. But I think

they’re all great and I could never choose. I don’t think.

Kierre Childers (25:25)
Yeah,

would be it. Hopefully I never have to, right?

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (25:28)
I know,

right? I know. ⁓ So if anyone wanted to come to Alaska and book a trip with you, where would they find you?

Kierre Childers (25:35)
our website, revel treks and tours.com is a great starting point that kind of breaks down all of our trip options and there’s, ⁓ you can always call or email us based on the contact information from there. So

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (25:47)
you so much for for taking the time. And I appreciate you sharing your knowledge about hiking in Alaska. And I’m kind of, you know, jealous of where you get to live. Now, as you get into the winter months, will you will it quiet down for you then? Like like you said in Denali, how it kind of got quiet? Is that the same for you guys? Are you still busy in the winter?

Kierre Childers (25:59)
Okay.

Thanks.

We’re still busy, we are the visitors, like visitors slow down for sure, but we really ramp up our stuff for locals. Yeah.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (26:16)
Okay. With the local. Well, enjoy

that. And thanks again for being here. I appreciate it.

Kierre Childers (26:24)
Yeah, thanks Lauren, I appreciate it too.

Best Hiking Trails in the Pacific Northwest by Gwyneth Manser

Lauren Stites — Tue, 03 Mar 2026 12:00:00 +0000

In this day and age, I feel the need to mention that I don’t use AI to write my posts!

Also: Some of the links below are affiliate links, meaning that, at no additional cost to you, I may receive a commission if you click through and make a purchase.

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APPLE | SPOTIFY | YOUTUBE

Best Hikes in the Pacific Northwest

Whether you are visiting the Pacific Northwest for the first time or are planning another trip to the region, you’ll want to listen to Gwyneth Manser’s episode of Her Side of the Trail! She shares some of her favorite trails, including beginner-friendly hikes and longer backpacking trails.

Gwyneth and her wife, Ami, have been exploring and hiking the area for years. You can learn more about Gwyn and Ami on their website, where you’ll find even more hiking guides and gear recommendations.

What We Talk About This Episode

[00:01:49] Home Sweet Home: Gwyn talks about where she and Ami currently live in the PNW

[00:03:26] Childhood Activities: Gwyn opens ups about how she didn’t grow up in an “outdoorsy” family but will still active

[00:04:21] First Backpacking Trip: Gwyn discusses what got her out backpacking for the first time

[00:06:29] Backpacking With Her Wife: Gwyn talks about her wife’s backpacking experience

[00:08:22] Settling in Washington: Gwyn shares how she and Ami ended up in Spokane

[00:11:16] When to Hike in the PNW: Gwyn presents the good and bad of hiking during the different seasons in the PNW

[00:12:04] Popular Hikes: Gwyn shares some of her favorite hikes which can also be very popular

[00:16:34] An Easier Trail: Gwyn reveals a fun, easier trail in the PNW

[00:17:02] Crater Lake: Gwyn speaks multiple trails to see waterfalls close to Crater Lake National Park

[00:19:19] North Cascades: Gwyn describes one of her favorite trails in North Cascades National Park

[00:22:45] A 10-Mile Trail: Gwyn speaks about a longer more challenging trail with a great payoff

[00:25:08] Idaho Panhandle: Gwyn shares some of her favorite trails in the Idaho Panhandle

Gwyneth (00:00)
my uncle called me up and said,

And I was just like, sure, yeah. And so I went to REI, got my like first pair of hiking boots as an adult and like a couple of supplies. And I brought all my cousin’s old gear and went on this backpacking trip, not really knowing how it would go.

was totally hooked

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (00:37)
On this episode, I’m speaking with Gwyn Manzer.

Gwyneth and her wife, Ami, live in the Pacific Northwest and they have hiked all over Washington, Oregon, and even Western US.

Gwen shares some of her favorite trails in the Pacific Northwest

So if you have any plans to hike out there, you’ll definitely want to listen to this episode. Let’s get into it.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (00:55)
Hi, Gwyn, thank you for joining me today. I’m so glad to have you here to talk about hiking, especially in the Pacific Northwest. How’s everything going?

Gwyneth (01:05)
It’s good. It’s a beautiful fall day here. It’s starting to cool off in the PNW or at least in Spokane it is. And yeah, sunny, the leaves are all starting to change. I’m looking at like bright gold colors. So yeah, it’s a great day. When the sun is out out here, it’s a good day.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (01:21)
So where exactly are you located?

Gwyneth (01:23)
So my wife and I travel a lot in our truck camper kind of all over the region and the West, but our home base is in Spokane, Washington. So that’s where I am today. And it’s the eastern side of the state. So everyone thinks of like Seattle metro area. But we’re practically in Idaho, totally different ecosystem, very different vibe. And yeah, we’re really lucky out here.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (01:31)
Okay.

Is it still very mountainous out on the eastern side of the state?

Gwyneth (01:49)
actually right between, kind of uniquely, we’re right between the Cascade Mountain Range and the Rocky Mountain Range. So we can go one direction or the other and be in a totally different ecosystem. But yeah, it is still pretty mountainous. I would say Spokane itself is, I think we’re about 2000 feet of elevation. So we’re not super high and you have to go maybe an hour plus to get to like really cool mountains. But we are like

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (01:55)
Okay.

Okay.

Gwyneth (02:15)
pretty close. I like to joke if you’ve ever been to Bend, Oregon or heard of Bend, Spokane’s like the less cool and cheaper version of Bend. It’s kind of how I like to think about it or talk about it to people who aren’t familiar with the area.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (02:29)
You’re really selling it. ⁓

Gwyneth (02:33)
We really like Spokane let me be clear there. But yeah, I do wish we had some bigger mountains like Bend has

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (02:38)
Well, from someone who’s in Pennsylvania where my mountain that’s close to me is like 2,000 feet.

Gwyneth (02:46)
You’re in ⁓ the Philly metro area, right?

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (02:48)
You sound like you live in a great place.

yeah, the Appalachian Trail very close by, but still like, you know, it’s like 2,900 feet is like, woohoo, there you go, we made it to the summit.

Gwyneth (03:02)
Yeah, but the difference is on the west coast we believe in switchbacks and on the east coast you’re like go straight up the mountain it’s fine and you’re like wait this is like harder than I expected. ⁓

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (03:06)
Yeah.

Yeah. What’s a 30 % grade? Who cares? Just go.

All right. So we were talking, obviously you’re here. You love hiking. Now, did you grow up hiking? Was that something that you did with your family when you were younger?

Gwyneth (03:26)
I didn’t grow up doing a whole lot of hiking. I grew up in a very outdoorsy family, but more in the organized sports, like go run track and field and cross country, play field hockey, go swimming, that kind of stuff. ⁓ And I have an older sister, she’s five years older than me, and she is not a big fan of hiking and the outdoors and national parks. So growing up, we just didn’t do that stuff. And ⁓ it wasn’t until I got into college that

I started to visit some national parks, do a lot more hiking, and then after that was really where my, I guess, journey to being more outdoorsy really started. yeah, wasn’t, like, backpacking was a totally foreign concept to me growing up. I didn’t even know what that was.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (04:07)
It seems like a lot of the women that I interview that does happen, know, like maybe they’ve done like a few outdoorsy experiences as a child, but not until usually it’s like COVID or college. Those are the two things I feel like that influence people to get outside.

Gwyneth (04:21)
Yeah, I could see that. feel like COVID really changed a lot of people. I think for me, my big introduction was, so I grew up on the East Coast and went to college in Atlanta and then moved out to Portland, Oregon for my master’s. And I had a couple months before my master’s program was going to start, I was looking for any job I could find and wasn’t finding anything.

And I have relatives who live up in Washington and my uncle called me up and said,

Hey, like I know you haven’t started grad school yet and ⁓ I have backpacking permits for this really cool backpacking trip and I know you’ve never gone backpacking. Your cousin was supposed to go but he doesn’t want to anymore. So do you want to come? And I literally didn’t own a pair of hiking boots and I was like, sure, I’ll go. I don’t know what this is. it’s the route is called the Enchantment Traverse and it is one of the most

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (05:10)
Okay.

Gwyneth (05:11)
famous backpacking routes in Washington. It is very hard to get permits. It’s like a very competitive lottery process. So I had no idea what I was in for, but it’s like 5,000 plus feet of elevation gain, 20 plus miles. And I was just like, sure, yeah. And so I went to REI, got my like first pair of hiking boots as an adult and like a couple of supplies. And I brought all my cousin’s old gear and went on this backpacking trip, not really knowing how it would go.

was totally hooked and so that was my introduction to hiking and backpacking and the West because I had just moved out here.

And it was really thrown into the defend but I was with a bunch of super experienced people so I wasn’t worried or anything like that.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (05:49)
That’s a…

Yeah, was gonna say, like, that’s definitely being thrown into the deep end, like here, like 20 miles, sure. But I guess when you’re like in your young 20s, you know, you can do anything.

Gwyneth (06:00)
Let’s go!

You know, now that I’m in my mid-30s, I’m like, gosh, I could not give out on a whim. I would probably die. it was pretty great and definitely got me hooked on more epic adventures, I would say.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (06:20)
Now that’s awesome. So your wife, she’s also a big hiker, backpacker. Is that what connected you two or did you get her into it?

Gwyneth (06:29)
she did a lot more backpacking and hiking as a kid. She grew up in the Sacramento area in California and so like grew up kind of going to the Tahoe area with her dad to go backpacking and have adventures. So she was, I think, a little bit more seasoned than I, but we met when I was living in Portland. We met online and started dating and then I followed her across the country to Virginia when she was doing grad school.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (06:45)
Okay.

Gwyneth (06:55)
⁓ But yeah, we do most of our adventures together. So not so many solo adventures. I do them, do do them occasionally. ⁓ But yeah, we’re mostly like an adventure duo, I guess you could say.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (07:08)
It’s nice to have a willing partner.

Gwyneth (07:10)
Yes, yes,

I think ⁓ she probably wouldn’t see me too much if she weren’t willing to go backpacking and hiking, so I guess she’s just kind of along for the ride by default, because we do enjoy each other’s company, but yeah.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (07:22)
It’s kind of

the same with my husband and the kids. I’m like, all right, guys, like this is how we’re spending family time together. We’re out on the trail. My son actually enjoys it. He actually just did a backpacking trip with his scout trip this weekend, so he loves backpacking, but he doesn’t like hiking with us because we hike too slowly for him.

Gwyneth (07:40)
That’s hilarious. my goodness, I love that.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (07:42)
I know, I know. He’s like, if you could just

move a little faster, it’d be more enjoyable. I’m like, thank you. Love you too.

Gwyneth (07:47)
You’ve got to get them into

something like photography. It’ll slow them way down and then you’ll be telling them, you got to speed up. Come on, stop taking pictures.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (07:56)
It

was nice for a little bit because he was using the Seek app, you know, to like identify trees and stuff. But then he got over that because now he can identify everything. He doesn’t need the app anymore. So then I’m like, don’t you want to say he’s like, I know what that is. You know, that’s the chicken of the forest mushroom or whatever that is. I’m like, OK. Wait, so we touched. Yes. Yes.

Gwyneth (08:12)
Oh yeah, I know what you’re talking about. So it sounds like now you need to come out west because then you won’t know what everything is.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (08:22)
Yes, yes, we have goals. have goals. So and then he won’t be hiking as fast, hopefully. We did touch on the fact that you that you’ve traveled across the country and then you’re back again. So what about Washington itself made you want to settle there? Was it like job opportunity? Was it the location that you’re at? with all the mountains?

Gwyneth (08:25)
you

you

I used to live in Oregon, which I absolutely love as well, kind of Portland metro area. And then after my wife finished her master’s in Virginia, in Blacksburg, we moved to California so I could do my PhD at UC Davis. And so we were in the Central Valley. And I love California. It’s a beautiful state. There’s so much to explore. But I would say, you we really miss the culture kind of vibe of the Pacific Northwest. I think we’re a little more.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (09:07)
Okay.

Gwyneth (09:07)
I don’t know, there’s more of a down to earth kind of sense to the folks that live up north of California. And so we were kind of always wanting to go back. when I finished my PhD, I applied for something called a postdoc, which is basically, you have a PhD, so you have your doctorate, but you’re looking to do research work with a professor. And so the postdoc that I got was at Washington State University, which is in Pullman, about an hour and a half south of Spokane.

And we had just finished up two rounds of small college towns, so we didn’t really want to move to Pullman. So we ended up moving to Spokane and settled here and I’ve really liked it. And I’m not working my academic job anymore and not in academia any longer, but that was kind of what brought us to Washington. And we weren’t sure how we would like it. We know we love the Pacific Northwest, but Oregon and Washington are very different, but we’ve really enjoyed being here.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (10:05)
Well that’s good. And your PhD is in Geology? Is that correct? Well, Geography! Sorry!

Gwyneth (10:09)
in geography, which is close to geography.

Geography and then my focus was on local and sustainable food systems. So that was kind of what I specialized in and what I did teaching and research in. Yeah, it’s definitely a cool journey and glad I was able to finish my degree. yeah, getting a PhD, I always joke, is the hardest thing I’ve ever had to do. It definitely requires a lot of work. And so

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (10:17)
Very interesting.

I’m sure.

Gwyneth (10:34)
always think that when I’m on a hard hike or something like, I got a PhD. It’s fine. ⁓

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (10:38)
You’re like, I can do anything after my, how, what is it?

My one friend has her PhD. was like six, almost seven years of school for her. Was that about the same for you? Yeah. Okay.

Gwyneth (10:48)
Well for me it was five, the fastest you

can finish is four, and then the longest you can be I think it’s like nine. So ⁓ yeah, I feel like five is a good amount. Yeah, don’t go by that too often, but it is my official title I guess.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (10:54)
Yeah, yeah. That’s still a long time. You did good. Good, good. Dr. Manser

you definitely earned it.

All right, so let’s switch over to hiking topics about, especially this Pacific Northwest, because that’s why I have you on here. I wanna pick your brain, your expertise of the region. ⁓ I would love to get out there, I have not. So for a first timer, are there any specific trails in Washington, Oregon, in that area that you would be like, you must do this? These are the best trails for a first timer out there.

Gwyneth (11:16)
Hmm.

Hmm.

I love everything, like all the hikes in the Pacific Northwest, so it’s always hard for me to break it down. But I would say when you’re coming out here, I’ll share some of my favorite trails and some of my kind of favorite regions to explore, but I will kind of caveat that with you should think about what season you’re coming out. So I know when I moved out here, I had no idea like mountains are not a thing in southern New Jersey. It’s a very flat, so I didn’t really…

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (11:41)
You

That’s true, yes.

Very flat.

Gwyneth (12:04)
have a sense of what the seasons here look like. And at least in Washington, if you’re trying to do higher alpine hikes or higher elevation hikes, they’re often covered in snow through mid to late July. So if you go to Mount Rainier National Park in June thinking, wow, it’s summer, this is going to be great, it’s a snow field.

So I think I was really surprised by that moving out here. So you want to keep the seasons kind of in mind. And obviously rain is a factor, particularly on what we call the west side, aka over the Cascade Range, kind of towards Seattle and Portland. And then the other thing I would say is to think about the caliber of hikes you want to do. So are you up for a lot of elevation gain? Are you up for a lot of mileage? Are you looking to do stuff that’s a little easier or more low key? And I think that’s another important factor because

in Washington you can do like 6,000 plus feet of elevation gain in a hike or you can do like 200 feet and there’s everything in between. ⁓ And so that’s something to keep in mind. But I would say if you’re coming out here, two of my favorite trails for kind of first time visitors to the Northwest and in particular to Washington. ⁓ One is the Skyline Loop Trail and it’s on, it’s in Mount Rainier National Park and it’s

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (13:03)
Ooh.

Mm-hmm.

Gwyneth (13:25)
one of the most popular trails in the park. So it is very busy and it’s the first time I’ve done a hike and thought, wow, this feels a little like Disneyland. But if you go earlier late in the day, you’ll get a lot fewer people and also if you go kind of in the off season. But it’s five and a half miles, nothing too wild and it’s about 2000 feet of gain. And you feel like you’re right on top of the mountain the whole time. You’re not, you’re overlooking the mountain if it’s a sunny day.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (13:44)
Yeah, that’s good.

Gwyneth (13:54)
But it kind of takes you on this traverse up around part of the mountain and you kind of change, I wouldn’t say you change ecosystems, but the landscape changes pretty dramatically in this five and a half mile hike. And in summer,

part of it’s like really rocky and kind of barren and parts are really forested or not really forested, but a bit forested.

⁓ And in summer you get tons of wildflowers and it’s really, really beautiful. And then in fall you have lots of really pretty colors from the shrubs. So that’s a hype that I would highly recommend. It’s totally worth it. It can be a little hard to nail a good weather window because Mount Rainier likes to hide behind ⁓ a layer of fog a lot of the year. And so you might show up and not see the mountain at all, which has happened to us on that trail before.

⁓ but it’s still really beautiful and worthwhile. And then the other one that’s probably equally famous in a lot of ways is in North Cascades National Park. So it’s in Northern Washington and it’s called Maple Pass. And I think it’s probably the most popular fall hike in maybe the entire Pacific Northwest. And I think for sure in Washington. And when I say it’s the most popular fall hike,

In fall, you might get two miles of cars parked down the road that you have to walk an extra two miles so that you can get to the trailhead because it is that popular. But it is, I think, a six and a half mile trail, a little over 2,000 feet of elevation. I want to say 2,500. So it’s not an easy hike, but it’s also not wildly challenging. And you’re basically going around this sort

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (15:11)
my goodness.

Wow.

Gwyneth (15:33)
You go up onto a pass and the whole time you’re overlooking this really beautiful lake, mountain lake called Lake Anne. It’s got kind of little iconic island on it that you may have seen pictures of before. But it’s the area is super famous for fall because it has these beautiful kind of fall colors, lots of orange and red on the mountainside. It almost looks like a tapestry. And then you also have these trees called birches and larches. Have you heard of them before?

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (16:01)
Yeah, they’re like that

yellow, that fantastic yellow in the fall, right?

Gwyneth (16:05)
Yeah, I thinking about

it. So they’re called deciduous conifers and they basically just look like regular kind pine tree type plants, evergreens, in summer. But in fall, they turn like highlighter green and then highlighter yellow in fall and then lose all their needles and they grow them back the next year. And so there’s about a one to two week window usually in fall where you have these just like brilliant yellow trees in the mountains. They look totally unreal.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (16:27)
Mm-hmm.

Gwyneth (16:34)
And that is why the hike is so famous because there’s a bunch of larches along that trail and it is just so beautiful. So would say if you can only do two trails and one of them is in fall, would say Mabel Pass would be my recommendation. Just have the crowds in mind. And then a couple other regions that might be worth exploring, ⁓ particularly if you’re maybe not looking for as intense of a hike. ⁓ One would be Oregon’s Highway of Waterfalls.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (16:59)
Mm-hmm.

Gwyneth (17:02)
So it’s highway 138 and it’s in southern Oregon, pretty close to Crater Lake. And ⁓ that area has literally dozens of beautiful waterfalls right off of this road. And you can do kind of longer hikes, so 10 plus miles to see waterfalls, or you can do like half mile jaunts to see the waterfalls. So it depends which ones you want to go see.

but they’re really beautiful and there’s a natural hot spring out there and a super cute place called the Steamboat Inn that you can stay along the route and it’s just like kind of magical fairy tale waterfall organ experience and it’s pretty good to visit

it’s so nice and I like that it’s accessible for a broader range of people

⁓ and near there is Crater Lake National Park, which is actually one of the lesser visited national parks in the U.S. And I, I think Crater Lake is like the bee’s knees. We’ve been a million times, often in winter, which is actually my favorite season. But the cool thing about Crater Lake is you can do hikes there, or you can just kind of drive around the rim of the lake in summer and stop at overlooks and like enjoy the view and you don’t have to do anything too wild. So it kind of depends what season you go.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (17:50)
Mm-hmm.

Gwyneth (18:13)
The majority of the road around the lake closes down in winter, so your activities are a little more limited, but it’s just such a pretty area and really worth exploring ⁓ and kind of, again, meets a wider range of abilities and interests. And then my last place that I would recommend to people that I don’t hear folks talk about a lot in terms of hiking is Whigby Island, which is right outside of Seattle. It’s about two hours if you drive. ⁓

And you can also take a ferry over from Seattle, and that’s a lot faster. But it is a beautiful island off the coast of Washington state. And there are a ton of just really flat, beautiful hikes through the forest and the woods. It really gives you those classic Pacific Northwest vibes with lichen and moss everywhere and beautiful mushrooms and just really chill and incredibly beautiful.

Those would be kind of my recommendations for regions to consider and a couple hikes to on your radar.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (19:15)
love that. Thank you. was very nice of you making me want to come out there like right away. Now, do you have any favorite like backpacking trails out there that you’ve that you’ve done that you and Ami have done together?

Gwyneth (19:19)
You’re welcome.

I think one of my favorite trails, which we’ve done both as a day hike and a backpacking hike is Hidden Lake Lookout. That’s in North Cascades National Park and it’s the road to get to it is really gnarly. It’s forest surface road that is not well maintained and we last drove it.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (19:48)
You think your car’s gonna fall apart as you’re driving along it?

Gwyneth (19:51)
Like the road itself is

rough and then there’s a ton of brush on either side of the road and we have our very wide truck with a truck camper on it. And so we got, I think someone joked that it’s called like the Cascades Car Wash. And then we just had like ear driving, you’re just hearing this like, the branches are dragging on the truck. I’m like, oh no, like our pain. But yeah, would recommend that.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (19:56)
no.

⁓

I can picture it, yes. So bring a car that you don’t care about on this road, if you can.

Gwyneth (20:21)
Yeah, the less you care about your car the better. yeah,

it’s ⁓ this like tiny trailhead, but it’s, I forget what the mileage is, I want to say it’s like nine miles or seven miles, but basically you go through this like beautiful meadow and kind of take these switchbacks up a mountain and then you end up in the alpine and like the second half of the hike it’s all in the alpine with these just beautiful views of Mount Baker and

some of the other iconic mountain ranges in the Pacific Northwest, and you end up overlooking ⁓ this thing called Hidden Lake, it’s literally a lake, and above that is a fire lookout. And you can actually stay there for free. So you have to kind of climb, I want to say like 500 or so feet up on this kind of like rocky trail, but you end up on the fire lookout where they actually used to like send someone up there to observe the landscape for wildfires.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (21:04)
Well that’s cool.

Gwyneth (21:19)
And so you can spend the night in the lookout. It’s pretty competitive to get a night in there. So we’ve never actually spent the night in the lookout. It depends on the season, but yeah, a lot of people will try for the lookout and realize it’s old or like a little too crowded for their comfort. So you can also ⁓ camp down below and there’s a ton of campsites and that’s what we’ve done in the past. And ⁓ it’s just a beautiful area, really nice mountain views and ⁓ yeah, a cool and unique trail.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (21:23)
I was gonna say, how hard is it to, yeah.

Gwyneth (21:46)
So I would say that that would probably be one of my top ones. And then this summer we did a big backpacking trip. I think it was we ended up doing 35 miles ⁓ for Eagle Cap Wilderness, which is in Joseph, Oregon area. So it’s in a part of the state or part of Oregon called the Wallowa Mountains. And it’s just a really pretty, very remote part of eastern Oregon. So it’s got a little bit of kind of a cowboy culture feel. They have a really famous rodeo in that town.

And then right outside of the town is this area called Eagle Cap Wilderness, which is just this beautiful area in the mountains full of lakes and trees, and it’s just super pretty. And so we finally got to go experience that for a backpacking trip, and it was really lovely, and I would recommend.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (22:36)
Do you have any kind of hidden gem, lesser known trails that maybe aren’t as popular as the other ones that you had mentioned, like the skyline trail and everything?

Gwyneth (22:45)
Yeah, if you’re looking to escape crowds, a couple of things come to mind for me. One, which we did this summer is called Trapper’s Peak and it is, it’s a tough hike. It’s 10 miles and 3,500 feet of elevation gain and the trail itself is not that exciting until like the last mile or two. So I will like preface this with that. it’s in North Cascades National So you’re in North Cascades National Park and

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (22:59)
Whoa.

But the payoff is worth it, right? ⁓

Gwyneth (23:14)
You have to do some scrambling, so it’s only good for hikers that are comfortable with that. basically you end the hike on Trappers Peak and you are just absolutely surrounded by the Cascade Mountains. Like you feel like you’re at eye level with all these iconic peaks. can see, if it’s called the Pickett’s Range or the Prickett’s Range or something, but there’s this like really remote mountain range in the North Cascades that you can be looking right at it. I have a picture of Ami.

standing on the peak with all these mountains in the background, It looks like it was photoshopped. Like it just looks unreal. It looks like you’re in the Alps or I don’t even know. It just looks absolutely fake. And I never hear people talk about that trail. We barely saw anyone on it when we did it. And Ami’s afraid of heights, so I wasn’t sure if was going to make it up the scramble portion.

but she did great and like she she was cursing me a little bit as she was going up but she survived and ⁓ she had a great time when she got to the top and so yeah Yeah, my role is to like push her limits and have her yell at me and then afterwards she’s like, okay, that was cool I guess but I’m not at you So, ⁓ yeah, I would say that is like one of my top heights if you’re up for a challenge ⁓

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (24:15)
Really testing the relationship there.

That sounds incredible.

I love rock scamp scrambles. Like so does my family too. Like we’re like if we’re not four points of contact on the trail, was it even worth it?

Gwyneth (24:42)
I

I feel like it’s like a fun, I don’t know, it’s a fun way to break up just like hiking all the time, like to challenge yourself in new ways and have a little bit of that like very low stakes technical piece where you’re like, yeah, I need to like focus. There’s a little bit of danger and thrill, but also like I need to kind of problem solve where am going to put my hands or am I going to do it? I think it’s a lot of fun.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (24:47)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, like where does my hand go? Where does my foot go? Yeah, I like that. I don’t know. Like you

said, yeah, it breaks it up a little bit. It’s fun.

Gwyneth (25:08)
Yeah, and then two other hiking areas or one other hiking area that comes to mind for me is so we live in Eastern Washington and we’re practically in Idaho and we spent a lot of time hiking in northern Idaho in an area called the Panhandle and I think it is just like such a stunning region depending who you ask it is part of the inland northwest or the Pacific Northwest or not depending who you’re talking to.

But there’s a Forest Service Road out there called, I think it’s 231, and there are a bunch of like stunning Alpine Lake, mountain lake hikes off of that. There’s a hike called Bee Hive Lakes, Fault Lake, Harrison Lake, can go backpacking or you can do them as day hikes. And every time we go out there, and we’ve been out there many times,

We barely see anybody. Like there is nobody out there almost to the point where you’re like, this is weird. Like I just did a 10 mile hike to a beautiful lake and I saw one person the whole time and that’s kind of creepy. ⁓ but it is just like such a pretty region. And so if you’re looking to like truly escape the crowds, you don’t want to deal with, ⁓ you know, kind of West side hikes or North Cascades It’s like come to Eastern Washington and come to Northern Idaho. Like there’s barely anyone on the trails out here and it is, is really beautiful and just a totally different landscape.

So I would say that would be another region recommendation. And then my one other thing would be Mount St. Helens. It’s not ⁓ like a hidden gem by any

don’t have specific trails to recommend, but I feel like that’s an area of Washington in particular. It’s pretty close to Portland. It’s pretty close to Seattle. And people just seem to forget about it. And you can do some really cool hikes there. And there’s a trail that actually kind of traverses the rim.

area that we were hoping to do this summer as a backpacking trip and we just couldn’t make it happen but I’m hoping to do that in the future because it seems like a really unique way to experience the mountain but there’s also tons of day hikes and it’s a really pretty area. We went there and did some hiking on our honeymoon many years ago and it just like really blew me away because I went in not knowing what to expect didn’t really see people talking about this area and was like wow it’s like

really cool and also I hope the mountain doesn’t erupt again while I’m here.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (27:23)
maybe that’s why it’s not as, you know, popular for hiking. Who knows?

Gwyneth (27:27)
They

have so many like probes and you know lots of pieces of equipment checking on all of our mountains for the North Cascades. I always feel pretty confident you know that we know something’s coming well beforehand and would obviously avoid the area if that happened.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (27:35)
Yeah.

Those are good tips though, especially the Northern Idaho because you don’t really hear about that area that much and you kind of forget like, yeah, no, have mountains up there. now ⁓ I kind of want to go to Idaho.

Gwyneth (27:58)
Yeah, it’s really beautiful.

We spend a lot of time in Idaho and I think it’s, being a queer couple, think sometimes we feel a little bit of reservation because it is a lot more conservative and the policies are a little different than in Washington. I just, maybe we’ve just been lucky, but everyone we’ve ever interacted with there is so nice and welcoming and it’s just like very, the folks you do meet on the trail are like true outdoors people.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (28:12)
Yes.

Gwyneth (28:28)
⁓ And so it’s nice to see that just like embrace of outdoor recreation culture. ⁓ I think one thing that always stands out to me is like when you’re hiking in Washington, you get a lot of people that are super prepared, but you also get folks hiking like 2000 feet up a mountain in like Keds. And I’m like, that is great for you if that works. But I don’t know that that’s like the safest going down a steep slope. But in Idaho, I feel like everyone is like.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (28:50)
Yeah.

Gwyneth (28:54)
Uber prepared to like, well, you could get stranded in the woods for a week and you’d probably be fine. That’s true. Yeah, yeah, that is definitely a place if you go hiking in fall be ready. It’s hunting season out there. So like, you know, wear high visibility clothes for sure.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (28:59)
Maybe that’s their goal. ⁓

Well, I really appreciate all of this

wealth of information that you’re sharing. I’m sure anyone who’s planning a trip out to the Pacific Northwest would, you know, is very appreciative of this. know, or if they haven’t started planning it, they will now because all of these trails sound incredible. ⁓ So thank you so much for all of that.

Gwyneth (29:26)
you.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (29:31)
Before I let you go, I like to ask everyone this one question. if you had to choose one kind of hike for the rest of your life, like if you could only hike to a scenic overlook, a view, or you could only do waterfall hikes for the rest of your life.

What would you choose?

Gwyneth (29:47)
gosh, can I deviate from those two things or do I have to pick between waterfall and scenic views? Probably, that’s tough. Maybe scenic views. A big reason I love hiking is the photography aspect. So if you go on our social media, you’ll see that’s about half of our content. And I just, love taking photos of nature and people in nature.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (29:51)
You had to pick from those and then you can tell me your other option.

Gwyneth (30:16)
I the scenic views might win out for me. I love waterfall hikes, but I feel like with a scenic view, you might get a little more diversity of landscape overall.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (30:26)
I understand,

Gwyneth (30:27)
I think, and you probably would notice this in the trails that I have listed, my favorites are things to see, but I think Alpine Lake hikes are like my, Beesies, I love them so much. That’s a lot of what we do in summer. you know, obviously we have to wait a while to like, to lie for things to kind of thaw out in the mountains. But I just think those hikes are so, so.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (30:37)
There you go.

Gwyneth (30:53)
beautiful and there’s like you get the mountains, you have the lake and there’s something kind of special about those and you also have to work for it generally speaking. They’re not usually the easiest trails that you can find so there’s usually less people and yeah that is like my happy place. I could hike to an alpine lake every day for the rest of my life and I’d be happy.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (31:16)
I’ll accept that as an answer. like it, I like it.

All right, Gwyn, before I let you go, tell everyone where they can find you because yes, your photography is gorgeous. I want them to see it. And I know you have great trail information on your website. So if you could just share where everyone can follow along with you.

Gwyneth (31:33)
Yeah, absolutely. So we’re on Instagram and TikTok and Facebook, our handles at Gwynandami and it’s my wife and I’s ⁓ account where we share kind of travels and adventure in mostly the Pacific Northwest and the kind of Western region. And then we also have a blog which is at www.gwynandami.com. And that’s where we share like more. ⁓

gear, deep dives, in-depth travel itineraries, all the national park guides you could ever want. So a nice ⁓ mix of different things as well as backpacking inspiration and tips.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (32:10)
And I’ll make sure to link all of that in the show notes so everyone can find you easily.

Gwyn, thanks again for all the information for spending your time here with me. I really appreciate it. And I can’t wait to continue to follow along on on your adventures.

Gwyneth (32:24)
Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me, Lauren. I really appreciate it. It was lovely chatting with you.

Hiking Around Maryland, Kids, and Mental Health: Kendall Concini Talks About It All

Lauren Stites — Tue, 17 Feb 2026 12:00:00 +0000

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Fun Hikes in Maryland

Kendall Concini joins Lauren on Her Side of the Trail to discuss some of her favorite Maryland hikes and what motivates her to get out on the trails. Some of the hikes include the Billy Goat Trail and Maryland Heights. Kendall also discusses what it’s like hiking with young kids and how they factor into which trail they choose.

Children’s Books About Mental Health

Kendall was inspired by her time outside with her kids to write a children’s book series focusing on mental health, but putting it into terms that kids can understand. Her first book, Mom’s Cloud and the Beach Adventure is available for purchase now. Listeners can use code PODCASTLOVE to get a special set of stickers FREE with their purchase!

What We Talk About This Episode

[00:01:17] Outdoor Focused Childhood: Kendall shares how she spent a lot of time exploring the outdoors as a kid

[00:03:56] Billy Goat Trail: Kendall describes her favorite hiking trail in Maryland

[00:06:47] History and Maryland Heights: Kendall talks about how her experience hiking Maryland Heights and the history she learned before and while on the trail

[00:09:33] Kid-Friendly Trail: Kendall shares her favorite kid-friendly hiking trails in Maryland

[00:10:43] Trails With Steps: Kendall talks about steep trails and trails with steps and what techniques she’s used to make them easier on the body

[00:13:23] Hiking While Pregnant: Kendall reminisces about her experiences when hiking while pregnant

[00:14:40] More Maryland Hikes: Kendall and Lauren discuss other great hiking trails in Maryland

[00:16:50] Hiking Motivation: Kendall explains some of the reasons she likes to get out on the trails

[00:20:58] Children’s Book: Kendall describes her new children’s book series discussing mental health

Kendall Concini (00:00)
And the thing I love about that trail is on the one mile like steep uphill, there’s a sign like halfway.

that says President Lincoln and his men carried cannons up this hill. And so you were like, you just stopped complaining and sweating and you’re like, I don’t have a cannon.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (00:24)
Today I’m speaking with Kendall Conchini. Kendall is an avid hiker and she lives in Maryland. So she shares a lot of her favorite trails in Maryland, which you’d be surprised that there’s some really good hiking trails in Maryland.

Kendall is also a new author, so we touch a little bit on her first book, Mom’s Cloud and the Beach Adventure, which is available for purchase now. So let’s get into it.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (00:47)
Hi Kendall, thank you so much for joining me today. How’s it going?

Kendall Concini (00:52)
It is great. It is like perfect fall weather. So I’ve been outside today.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (00:56)
Yeah, it was

nice day today. That reminds me, where are you located?

Kendall Concini (01:01)
I’m in Maryland.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (01:03)
Where in Maryland are you?

Kendall Concini (01:05)
a little under Baltimore in like, Severn, so perfect location to kind of get to a bunch of different locations but have our little quiet neighborhood.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (01:14)
That’s nice. So you’re close to like DC too. And then and then you’re not too far from the mountains of Maryland. All the good hiking. Now, you know, you’re here, you’re on a hiking podcast. I want to know, like, have you always been a hiker? Did you grow up hiking or did you kind of start that as an adult?

Kendall Concini (01:17)
Yes.

Nope.

⁓ I grew up like we had a great piece of like backyard property where we had our little home outside of our home. We called it Moss Island. My mom would, you know, kind of kick us outside and lock the house doors and it was all outdoor going in the woods. so finding new trails and new adventures is just has been my life.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (01:55)
That sounds like a perfect childhood. Like, just go outside and explore.

Kendall Concini (01:57)
Yes.

And now my husband and I, when we plan trips, it kind of starts at like how many hiking trails are in the area. And then it’s, if it’s a kidless trip, it’s how many hard hikes and if it’s kids trips, how many flat hikes. And so we start with the hikes, we follow up with the breweries and then we blend them together.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (02:21)
Yeah, same thing. why we’re going anywhere at all is because like, I heard about this one hike. Let me see what else is in the area, too. And then to break it up, because, know, that my family, unfortunately, doesn’t always want to go hiking with me. I have to look up other things, too. Like, oh, is there museums or other attractions? Is there something else to do? So no, but saying, yeah, the hikes always kind of drive the.

Kendall Concini (02:45)
Yes.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (02:45)
the destination, right?

So you hike then obviously with your family, do you do a lot of hiking in Maryland? Because there’s some people, I don’t think people realize how great hikes there are in Maryland. There’s a lot of good hiking in Maryland.

Kendall Concini (03:04)
Yes,

we have our favorites that it’s just if we haven’t been out in a while, like we go back to a favorite because we know what to expect. We know what we enjoy about it. ⁓ And then if we have, you know, a weekend, we have been trying to explore new trails and kind of get some variety, drive a little further.

and rotate them. It also depends on who we’re with and what they want to do. So we do have the same, like, do you want to rock climb? Do you want a flat path? Do you want to sweat? Do you want to run? And so Maryland just has so much variety to offer.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (03:32)
Yeah.

much, yes. I love hiking in Maryland. I’ve done a little bit down there and I definitely have more, especially the western side of the state, I wanna explore more over there. Now you mentioned you had some favorites then, so give me one of your favorite trails that you love to do in Maryland.

Kendall Concini (03:56)
So there’s the classic Maryland Great Falls side trail. We’ve done Virginia, we don’t love it as much, but we have been doing the Great Falls side. And then Billy Goat Trail B is just, it’s the rock scrambling, it’s the views. We have like, having done it so much in our life, we have like landmarks, like we have certain rocks that we just like know that rock, the shape of the rock means something to us.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (04:01)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

I love that.

Kendall Concini (04:25)
Um, and so that has been just, what do you want to do this weekend? And if we can’t come up with a plan, we just go hike Billy go be, um, they haven’t done that one yet because there are four and two. Now we have, um, I have hiked Billy goat be while pregnant and we’ve hiked it when the oldest one was in a baby sling. But after that, it was sort of like, we don’t want to carry them up anymore.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (04:34)
Now how old are your kids?

okay, I was gonna say, okay, yeah.

That’s impressive!

Kendall Concini (04:54)
or carry them. So we haven’t done that one with them yet, but we have taken them on the flat towpath down to the falls to see the falls and kind of go back.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (04:55)
No.

Mm-hmm.

We did the Billy Go trail. We’ve done it twice now because like you, it’s a favorite. both times we were coming back from DC area. I’m like, let’s stop in Billy Go trail before we go home. But my daughter, think she was like eight or nine, I think at the youngest. So, and there was someone on the trail. No, maybe she was 10, but there was someone on the trail who was a little younger, like maybe like a six or seven year old. And she handled that wall climb like a champ. So, you you’d be surprised what your kids can do.

Kendall Concini (05:31)
Yeah.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (05:33)
⁓ Maybe not the two year old, but yeah.

Kendall Concini (05:35)
yesterday I was in the car with a friend and we were talking about hiking trails and I was saying about coming on this podcast and when we hike the Billy Goat Trail, we get like geared up. Like we run the tow path, we hike it and we turn around and we hike it back and we make sure to do every difficult path we can and get a real workout because that’s just what my husband and I enjoy. And it was

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (05:47)
Mm-hmm.

That’s good.

Kendall Concini (05:59)
I’m because he was like, you’re those people we pass who is just decked out. And I’m like, this hike isn’t that serious. And I was like, yeah, what are you? And he goes, I wear like jeans. I was like, you’re the people we hate. I’m like, I’m like pouring sweat. And I’m like, how is this person just chilling in jeans? And so it’s.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (06:11)
You

Anytime we’re

hiking and we see someone in jeans, my husband always makes a comment. He’s like, how are they hiking in jeans?

Kendall Concini (06:24)
Exactly! And it’s just the fascinating

thing about that trail is because there are different like little routes within it you can take and ways you can do it. It’s just anyone can really get on that trail and just have a completely different experience and it blows my mind when I’m just like they’re just like chill walking and I’m like no workout mode.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (06:44)
What’s another favorite trail in Maryland that you have?

Kendall Concini (06:47)
So I like Billy Goat and like the evolution of when we did it. So I did it with friends. used to run, then we’d go out for like brunch. then we moved into, we show every single person that comes to Maryland that trail. But we also really love Maryland Heights, ⁓ which is like way up there. But that one is like, make sure we prepare people. And it’s changed over the years. We went recently and realized they like,

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (07:04)
Yes. Yes.

Kendall Concini (07:14)
took out the parking and you’re supposed to get a shuttle and stuff. So we tried to be stubborn and park on a road and like walk down the one road and get to it. We did some like train trekking on the rails to get there. But I love that one because it, I mean, it’s completely steep uphill, but there’s something just so cathartic about like knowing it’s going to be strenuous and getting to the top and the

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (07:36)
Yes.

Kendall Concini (07:43)
view is worth it. They have the pull off where you get to like the you can do the pull off and get to the little area where you can see Virginia, West Virginia and Maryland and Harper’s Valley. And it’s gorgeous. It’s worth it. But then you can keep going and do the entire one.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (07:45)
So worth it.

Kendall Concini (07:59)
And the thing I love about that trail is on the one mile like steep uphill, there’s a sign like halfway.

that says President Lincoln and his men carried cannons up this hill. And so you were like, you just stopped complaining and sweating and you’re like, I don’t have a

cannon. But then it also says that President Lincoln was like, okay, men, you got it and went back down. So I always love doing that trail with people and saying, if you take one more step, you’ve gone further than Lincoln. So just move it without a cannon. But I like the history of the trail. We like every time we go on a trail.

on the drive there, my husband will like look up some of the history and then like, wow, we’re walking, spout the facts and stuff. that one’s just so much nostalgia of Maryland built into it. And then the views when you get up there and you can see people like tubing down the river and stuff. just that one’s another, seeing the groups that do it is very interesting. And they say no dogs, but we always see the little dog trying.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (08:42)
Yes! ⁓

that trail I did with my kids a couple of years ago and I actually had COVID, but I didn’t realize I had COVID. So I’m like, I don’t know if that trail was as hard as I thought it was or if it was just so hard because I couldn’t breathe right because I had COVID. Yeah, no, that wasn’t fun. ⁓ Totally. I agree, though. The payoff totally worth it. And I did not do the the further along, so I did not hike further than Abraham Lincoln.

Kendall Concini (09:13)
Thank

You

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (09:33)
No, that’s great. All right. What else in Maryland? I mean, if you’ve been over the state, I want to know because I’ve I’ve been to those two trails that you’ve mentioned, but I’m just wondering if there’s any other good trails that maybe I need to know

Kendall Concini (09:45)
kind of outside of Baltimore and Catonsville and it’s the Soap Zone Trail. And that one is just, it’s a little wonky how to really pay attention to signs and do a little research because we found that part of the ownership of the trail changed. so where we used to go is now private property. And so we’ve just been kind of like

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (09:50)
I haven’t done that one.

Kendall Concini (10:07)
running through and trying to be like, are figuring out getting back on the trail, but it is a nice terrain change again. So we have taken the kids on that one. There’s a lot of flat paths and then it kind of comes to a river part and you get to jump over the river rocks and play. And we like playing like the Winnie the Pooh sticks where you put him down and watch them raise. So that one’s a cute one to like pause and have some lunch spots.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (10:26)
that.

Kendall Concini (10:33)
⁓ pretty easy. think it’s like 2.4 miles or something altogether. It just usually takes us a lot longer.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (10:40)
with kids in tow, definitely. You gotta double your time easily.

Kendall Concini (10:43)
Yes, but we enjoyed that one and they’ve done that a few times because it’s close to home too and some of the, ⁓ if we get time to take them, again another like steep incline one but it’s a fairly short trail to do Annapolis Rocks but making sure it’s the one that is like further out there with the actual signpost because there’s two we found out when we were not at the same parking lot with friends.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (11:03)
yeah.

⁓

no, two different Annapolis rocks?

Kendall Concini (11:13)
But it’s pretty, yeah,

we threw it in the GPS, but you have to like make sure you’re clicking like Annapolis Rocks Trailhead and it will take you to the actual park one. And then that the kids did not enjoy. It’s like sort of manmade sort of helped out by the parks built stairs. And so you do have to do the stairs trek that seemed like they never end, but they do eventually. And then you get a really beautiful

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (11:21)
Okay.

Kendall Concini (11:42)
just kind of like forest walk and go through everything. And so that’s been a good one

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (11:47)
I love that. Why does it always feel like stairs on a hiking trail never end?

Kendall Concini (11:55)
Yeah,

I actually prefer going up. Like I know it doesn’t in the moment. I always say like, I forget that I say I prefer this, but going down, I feel is a lot harder on my knees. And I remember meeting this woman once who was like a very intense hiker. And we were actually going down Maryland Heights and she was just like, you’re doing it wrong. And she had her sticks. And so she’s like, you’re not supposed to be upright. You’re supposed to sort of like hunch and be like in a squat.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (12:06)
Mm-hmm.

Kendall Concini (12:22)
and like shimmy down and it feels ridiculous but it does feel a lot better on the knees. ⁓ So sometimes the occasional trail person will see me looking like what is she doing? And I’m like it really is better on the knees but I prefer going up.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (12:23)
Mm-hmm.

It’s a lot better on the knees, yeah.

So that reminds me because we did earlier this this year, this spring, we did a trail and I don’t know if you’ve heard of it. It’s in Pennsylvania. It’s called the Thousand Steps Trail. It’s like kind of like South Central Pennsylvania. So there’s a thousand steps. It’s these thousand stone steps that speaking of people having to do things like, you know, that we’re like, we’re hiking and you had to pull a cannon up there, right?

These steps are there because they were miners and this is what they had to do. This was their commute to work every day was to go up these thousand steps. So, but going up hard, coming down so much harder. And I don’t know, it was just because our legs were so tired or just because, you know, the constant coming down, whatever. I don’t know. But yes, coming down a lot harder. I agree.

Kendall Concini (13:23)
My husband and I, before my daughter came and we knew we weren’t going to travel for like a year or whatever, we did like the baby moon and we went to Utah. And so we hiked all over Utah. And that was, you know, I couldn’t drink, I couldn’t go to like other activities. So we just hiked and we had realized when we go on trips, how much like splicing in a beer tour or something kind of slowed our bodies down. Cause I was just like, nope, we got nothing else to do. Let’s hike all day.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (13:31)
Mm-hmm.

Have fun.

Let’s

hike, hike, hike.

Kendall Concini (13:53)
And then hiking like super pregnant, if he would complain, it was nice to just turn and be like, really? But then I also realized those trails that were like the national parks didn’t have as many private pull-offs to like use the restrooms every five seconds. So it’s like now as we’re hiking, I’m like.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (14:00)
Like.

Kendall Concini (14:14)
Even if a trail is hard, kind of have to remind myself to not complain because I’m like, I’m not pregnant. could just, I don’t have to go to the bathroom every five seconds anymore. So I’m like, just kind of get through it and go, but.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (14:20)
Yes. You don’t have to pee every five seconds. ⁓

That’s so funny. you know, that’s something like you don’t even think about, like when you’re hiking when pregnant, like that that’s one of the obstacles that you have to be pee all the time.

Kendall Concini (14:38)
Yes.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (14:40)
we’ve been to Rock State Park, so that’s that’s a fun. Have you done rocks with the kids? They have the Kilgore Falls, which is a flat trail. The kids could definitely handle that. And then the King and Queen seat at the at the other location of the park, which also the kids could handle.

Kendall Concini (14:44)
Yeah.

yeah, okay, yes.

Yes, that’s out if you go

Cunningham Falls. Kids can handle Cunningham Falls. That one’s a fun one.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (15:01)
Yes, Cunningham Falls. We

have not done Cunningham Falls because we went up to Wolf Rocks and Chimney Rocks. It was like a four mile loop. And by the time we were done, my kids were like, no, we’re not going to a waterfall now, mom, we’re done. Yeah.

Kendall Concini (15:14)
Yeah, we did the chimney, chimney rock. She, it’s

also been fun because there was the day where we had like the baby sling and she can just be in it the whole time we go and do them and she gets to like get out and play. Then there was the combination of she’s three, she’s going to walk a little bit and then get back in the sling. And now she’s four. So she is supposed to just completely walk the whole thing. But

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (15:41)
Okay.

Kendall Concini (15:42)
She has been like brutally aware when we go on some trails if we start going downhill on a trail, she’ll like halfway through turn and go, is this a loop? Do we have to come back up this? And she’ll like, I want to come back up this and we have to like convince her to move on. But I’m the same, like she picked it up because that’s what I’ll always say. I’m like, oh, we’re going downhill now. We have to come back up. But then if.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (15:55)
You

Ha ha.

Kendall Concini (16:10)
If we make her walk like the steps or anything, I’ll tell her like, you get to come down on the way back. And she hasn’t figured out that it’s easier to go up, it’s been the chimney rock was one where she was pointing out to there were some spots where she’s not going that way. Like, okay.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (16:19)
You

She’s very intuitive four year old.

What are some of the motivations for you to get out on the trail? Do you find yourself needing to get out? Obviously for exercise, do you do it? ⁓ Sometimes I just need to get outside and be in nature because my head space is just not good ⁓ or just for family time. Like, what are your motivations for getting out on the trail?

Kendall Concini (16:50)
It’s a combination of all of them. you know, back to Billy Goat Trail, when we first started it, that was, we knew we had this all-you-can-eat brunch place with the little plates. And so we knew we were always going to go run the Billy Goat Trail towpath, hike it, run back, and then kind of like feel not guilty about brunch. So that was like, yeah, our good routine. Like, this is our workout. And then

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (17:12)
I love that, it’s good motivation.

Kendall Concini (17:18)
when we travel, it’s just exploring different places, like the different scenery and what their trails look like, different terrain. And then most trails take you up to a super gorgeous lookout and I think Sharp Rock, that’s where there’s the graffiti and stuff too, out in Trimney Rock. Like that was just gorgeous to go see.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (17:38)
yeah, I’ve heard of, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kendall Concini (17:43)
among

the kind of forest there. And so we like being able to get really high and see the scenery. So we’ve always tried to include any time we travel, like a high point to just kind of overlook everything. And then we both, you I work off my phone for work. I work off my phone for like my part-time job and gigs. And so it’s nice to just have that. We’re gonna completely put it away and disconnect. And then when we…

go on trails. Sometimes it’s we know how long the trail is and you know, what do want to talk about? Are we having like a mini like home what’s going on therapy session? Are we like catching each other up on work or friendships? And sometimes my husband and I play this fun game where we pick a category. So say movies with sports and we just spend like the whole time going back and forth and you have to name it until someone runs out and so

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (18:37)
like that that’s

fun.

Kendall Concini (18:38)
We prepare for hikes that way too. So if he looks up the history and he says like, okay, Lincoln was on this trail. So I want to pick like movies with presidents. And so it just kind of like connects to it and stuff. With the kids, we have like, they love collecting leaves and sticks. And so we’ll do it and then come home and make like art projects. ⁓ We usually, if it’s somewhere new and we have like driven really far, we bring home a rock. So we do have a rock.

collection, which I’m trying to teach my daughter. They do. I am very much trying to teach her right now that our rock collection is significant rocks and mom doesn’t want like every rock, but she will like come home from school and be like, I got these from the playground and we’ll bring those back. So it’s just a lot. Like it’s, it’s our favorite activity. Just like nature. I, I love a good rock. So I love anything where there’s rock.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (19:10)
Kids always want to bring home rocks.

Kendall Concini (19:37)
scrambling. We have so many pictures of trees. I love trees with the little hidey holes and we pretend to like get in them like Alice in Wonderland style and I love ones that become seats so we try and take like the pictures are hanging from them and climbing them and so it’s just depends on the mood why we’re going and what what the activity while we’re there is.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (19:38)
Same, same.

I love that.

No, but that’s fun and that’s traditions too then, you know, it’s like the kids know what to expect when they’re out on the trail and then and then they start kind of leading that way too, right? They’re like, hey, let’s get our picture on our seat or, you know, let’s find this rock or, know, whatever. So I think that’s great. It’s a great way to bond as a family.

Kendall Concini (20:19)
It helps them with, like, she knows what I love, so when we go hiking, she’ll try and find it. So that kind of, like, shifts her focus to being out and, like, it’s an adventure, it’s a scavenger hunt. I also, like, kind of our routine, like, one of our friends from Maryland who we’ve always hiked the Billy Goat Trail with, she now lives in Ohio, so…

when she comes home and visits, if the weather allows, we’re like, okay, we have to make time to go out here. like, that’s our kind of memory founding is like going back to the trail where we started and going through it.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (20:50)
Now you are a writer too, correct? Do you write a lot about your hiking experiences, like reflecting on that?

Kendall Concini (20:58)
So I’m writing a children’s picture book based around I do have depression and I needed a way to teach my daughter about it. And so we used a cloud analogy and I explained that it started at the beach and it was they love the beach, they love water, that’s their favorite place. And they said, mom doesn’t always show up at the beach the same way. It’s like I have shade. And she was able to get that. So we made this group.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (21:25)
That is such a great analogy.

I love

Kendall Concini (21:28)
Thank you.

she helped me, we put some lines together. It was a bedtime story that we made into a book because I realized like we made it because I couldn’t find it. So we should put it out there for everyone else. ⁓ But it is part of a series and there is some like going out to a park and a walk in the second book. So it hadn’t been directly about like hiking but it is about

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (21:40)
Yes.

Kendall Concini (21:53)
being outside and trying to like have the elements of what nature does to you and showing that there are different ways people can show up and why they’re in places and then what they kind of get out of the experience and take away. So in the second book, actually, it’s a lot of mom does find a tree to go sit on and they tell her like, you stay here. And then the kids find a rock that they’re like playing and hiding behind.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (21:54)
Being outside.

Kendall Concini (22:23)
So it’s like elements of it, but we are very much an outdoor family. And so that came into our, even when writing it, there were lines that we were tweaking and stuff. And I remember sometimes walking on a hike and just like the whole hike, making my husband like hear the book over and over and over again until we got it. And then trying to like write it down while I’m going.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (22:39)
You

I always find that I’m more inspired after being outside. So, you know, I can definitely appreciate that you use being outside to perfect your craft in that in that sense. What are the names of your books? Please share.

Kendall Concini (22:59)
Mom’s Cloud and the Beach Adventure is the first one. I haven’t come up with the second one yet. I keep changing the location. It’s like, it is a park. We are on a walk. It is ⁓ part in the forest. So I’m like, we’ll see when it finally lands.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (23:05)
Now, you…

You’ll have like an epiphany

one day, it’ll be like eating dinner and it’ll just come to you, you know? That’s always how it is, right? Now, is your first book available for purchase right now?

Kendall Concini (23:20)
Yes.

So it comes out in January of 2026. We do have pre-orders up, and pre-orders come with swag, so my kids are making little things to go with the books, which has been fun too.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (23:29)
which is perfect.

So at the time that this podcast airs, your book will be available. So where will it be available?

Kendall Concini (23:42)
it will be available on Amazon, because that’s where we’re to kind of start in the self publishing. And then my website is cloudydaychronicles.wordpress.com.

And I’m on Instagram, so Cloudy Day Chronicles.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (23:55)
Awesome.

So people can follow along and learn more about the second book. And maybe by the time this podcast airs, the title will have been decided. Who knows? Now, Kendall, I’m so appreciative of your time and you sharing some of your favorite Maryland Hikes with me. ⁓ Before I let you go, I’m going to ask you a question.

If you could only do one kind of hike for the rest of your life, would it be like a hike to a waterfall or, you know, someone actually was like, oh, how about a lake? I’m like, lake counts too. But any kind of water view or a scenic overlook.

Kendall Concini (24:28)
Actually, I like if I can only do one if you’ve ever done it’s called like Devil Rocks or something like that. It’s in Virginia and you basically like hike and you get and there’s just a field of rocks and they like stack on each other and you can get to a little viewpoint and it’s somewhat the forest and then just rocks and there’s just something about.

the beauty of that and like how did they fall here and they don’t move and some do move and they all just look wildly different and I can spend forever doing that same hike and getting there and just looking at different rocks. It’s just the way they are because it’s in the forest and it just like opens up and so it was this amazing hike to just be in like this thick thick dark forest and then just have it open up to like this strange rock

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (25:02)
Okay.

Kendall Concini (25:21)
field where trees kind of grow through it and persevere around it. then like that was my favorite and like ideal hike is to just go kind of see the forest develop around it each time you go hike again.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (25:24)
Mm-hmm.

Kendall, again, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. ⁓ I could talk about Maryland hikes all day because I love hiking in Maryland. Like I said, I have to explore more of it.

Kendall Concini (25:42)
Yes.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (25:46)
⁓ But we every time we’ve gone down there to hike we’ve had a great time. So I appreciate I appreciate you hanging out and talking about Maryland.

Kendall Concini (25:52)
Thanks for having me.

Beginner Backpacker Tips: Learn From Expert Guide Halle Homel

Lauren Stites — Tue, 03 Feb 2026 11:30:00 +0000

APPLE | SPOTIFY | YOUTUBE

The Best Tips For a Beginner Backpacker

I’m not an expert backpacker. But Halle Homel is! Halle has been a backpacking guide for the past 4 years and has taken new backpackers on trails through the Sierra Nevada in California and the Valley of Fire in Nevada. She is a multi-sport adventure guide, not only guiding groups on backpacking trips, but also canoeing and rock climbing.

So you know she really knows her stuff!

Get your notebooks out because Halle is throwing tons of information and tips out in this episode. Halle shares some of her favorite trails, the gear every backpacker should have, and the essentials you should always carry on your adventures.

What We Talk About This Episode

[00:02:14] Growing up outdoorsy: Halle shares about her upbringing and the kind of outdoorsy activities she did with her family

[00:03:29] Getting into backpacking: Halle talks about what drew her to backpacking and how she became a backpacking guide

[00:07:40] Favorite backpacking trips: Halle reluctantly chooses a few top backpacking trips (though she loved them all!)

[00:10:10] Best trails for beginner backpackers: Halle educates on how to choose the perfect first backpacking trail

[00:13:44] Best season for beginner backpackers: Halle shares the pluses and minuses for backpacking in each season

[00:16:14] Must-Have gear for beginner backpackers: Halle discusses what gear beginner backpackers should rent, borrow, or purchase for their first trip

[00:26:29] Essential gear for backpackers and day-hikers: Halle shares the most important items every hiker and backpacker should have on them during trips

[00:31:08] Food recommendations: Halle talks about food options you can bring on the trail

[00:33:29] Scary backpacking stories: Halle tells a story about an almost mis-hap on the trail

Halle (00:00)
I do enjoy backpacking solo. ⁓ I tend to go and solo backpack when I need to like process stuff ⁓ and like be in my head a little bit and like think through things.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (00:09)
Okay.

Halle (00:10)
It’s kind of like pausing time in a way, because it’s like, cool, I’m going to like step away and not be on my phone and I’m going to just be in nature. And then I get to like reenter society having had this really cool experience.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (00:27)
On this episode, I have Hallie Homel with me and I’m so excited to have her share her knowledge and expertise on backpacking. If you have not backpacked at all, if maybe you’ve only done a few trips or maybe you’re just looking for some more tips and trail recommendations, this is the episode for you.

is an expert backpacking guide and she has a lot of information to share and you’re gonna wanna take notes this episode, I’m pretty sure. So let’s get into it. Let’s start planning our next backpacking adventure.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (00:57)
Hi Halle, thank you for joining me today. How are you doing today?

Halle (01:01)
Thanks so much for having me. I’m doing really good. Just went on a trail run, just got back. So happy to be here.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (01:07)
How nice is that? What’s

the weather like today? We are talking at the end of October. So what’s the weather like?

Halle (01:13)
Yeah, it’s actually surprisingly nice. We had a little bit of snow a couple weeks ago up here in the mountains, but it was like 50 degrees today. Absolutely gorgeous. So yeah.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (01:24)
And

I guess I should say, where are you located? So everyone knows where we’re talking about the weather.

Halle (01:28)
Yeah, totally. So I right now am finishing up my season in the Eastern Sierra in California. Yeah, I live at 8,000 feet of elevation. ⁓ the snow definitely stuck in town ⁓ when it came through. ⁓ But yeah, I’m moving in about a week down to the desert for my winter job. So kind of temporary up here in the mountains.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (01:34)
Okay, how nice.

that’s cool that you get to kind of get the best of both worlds throughout the year then. you’re here to talk about your expertise in backpacking, which I really appreciate because I know a lot of people ⁓ will want the information. But before we even get into that, I always like to ask people, were you always like a hiker? Did you grow up hiking or did you kind of get outdoorsy as an adult?

Halle (01:57)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, so I sort of kind of grew up hiking. My parents ⁓ took me outside all the time when I was like a young child. Like we definitely were out hiking, looking for lizards, rock scrambling, all the things. I grew up in Southern California, so a lot of outdoor access ⁓ down there. Yeah, yeah, I grew up like right next to the Santa Monica Mountains National Recreation Area. So

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (02:33)
Yes, great place for hiking. Yeah.

How nice.

Halle (02:42)
tons of trails right out our back door, right? ⁓ And then as a teenager, I sort of like strayed away from it as teenagers do and kind of rediscovered my love for nature and the outdoors in college. ⁓ Went on a little spring break trip to Yosemite and kind of absolutely fell in love with hiking and with our national parks. And so it was kind of like reconnecting with the younger self that ⁓ loved nature.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (02:51)
Yeah.

how could you not fall in love with nature in Yosemite? It’s like a requirement there. Like if you don’t love nature when you visit there, then there’s something wrong with you. So that’s awesome. So did you start backpacking in college or did you start that later?

Halle (03:13)
Yeah, right.

Yeah, yeah, something didn’t quite connect, right? ⁓

So I started backpacking in my early 20s, like pretty much as soon as I was out of college. You know, it took me a few months. I did a lot of hiking, a lot of car camping. I was actually living out of my Kia Soul for a few months right after I graduated. So I was just doing these like really long day hikes for a while. And then my partner at the

introduced me to backpacking in my early 20s.

But yeah, spent many years doing longer day hikes, car camping. My first backpacking trip was in the Wind River Range in Wyoming, which if anyone knows anything about that, that is pretty rugged terrain to be introduced.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (04:03)
how lovely.

And I was, yeah.

Halle (04:09)
to the sport.

And so because of that, like, you know, it was a rough trip, I’m not gonna lie. You know, my gear was super heavy, but learned a lot. Yeah, it was kind of a necessary learning curve. Like, I’m really glad that I had that experience because it let me learn enough to then streamline my best practices. And it’s been really cool to kind of like watch myself grow into the sport.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (04:19)
You learned a lot, I assume.

Halle (04:38)
and become a guide and have hundreds, if not thousands of miles behind me now. ⁓ And then like look back on that first trip in the winds ⁓ when I was a beginner and be really grateful that like that version of me actually stuck with it, ⁓ even though it was really hard.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (05:00)
Now how long then have you been backpacking?

Halle (05:02)
what year was that? ⁓ I want to say five or six years at this point. Yeah. Yeah.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (05:06)
Okay, awesome. And then,

so when did you become a backpacking guide? Like what brought you into doing that?

Halle (05:15)
So I started backpack guiding at the end of 2022. It was after my first season in the outdoor industry. So I was kind of working as like an assistant rock climbing guide before that. Yeah, super fun. And yeah, so winter 2022, I believe I started in December, I was hired

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (05:31)
That’s fun.

Halle (05:39)
on as an outdoor educator in a program that involves a 10 day backpacking trip for high school students. So I worked with that program for three winters. So it was that winter and then the two after that. And last year I got the privilege of being my group’s lead guide, which was such an honor because this is a program that like is literally older than I am. So that was really special and

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (05:44)
Okay.

Halle (06:07)
⁓ Just getting to introduce students to the outdoors is really, really cool. But I also do a lot of guiding with adults as well. I actually prefer working with adults. ⁓ I think it’s really cool to watch grown humans realize as an adult what they’re capable of. I think that that is one of the coolest things to just get to bear witness to. ⁓

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (06:17)
Mm-hmm.

Halle (06:34)
I will say that backpacking is about 50 % of everything I guide. ⁓ My official job title or what I tell people my job title is, because who knows? I work seasonally, it changes all the time. ⁓ But I tell people that I’m a multi-sport adventure guide. ⁓ So I do a lot of overnight trips, ⁓ but I also guide a lot of naturalist focused day hikes.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (06:40)
Okay.

Yeah.

you

Okay.

Halle (07:03)
I’ve done a lot of paddle guiding, canoe guiding. I’m also a certified rock climbing instructor. I just love getting people outside. Yeah, yeah. And this past summer, I worked full time as a backpacking guide here in the High Sierra and the Yosemite High Country. ⁓ So I guided everything from John Muir Trail sections to Mount Whitney summits in just one of the most beautiful mountain ranges in the world.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (07:10)
You’re a Jane of all trades.

Halle (07:32)
I’m really grateful to have gotten to call these mountains my office and also gotten to introduce people to them.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (07:40)
what are some of your favorite backpacking trips that you’ve done? Do you have any number ones or ⁓ is that hard to choose?

Halle (07:45)
Yeah.

It is a little bit hard to choose. I definitely tend to challenge myself when it comes to my personal

I always say that my favorite trail is the Timberline Trail, which is 43 miles. It circumnavigates Mount Hood in Northern Oregon. ⁓ I did most of that trip solo.

with the exception of the last section where I kind of started hiking with somebody that I actually met on the trail. that trip was truly life-changing. It was like the trip that showed me how capable I was as an outdoors woman at the time. I also did it before like they cleared all the downed trees and before they built the bridge over the Elliott Glacier River and…

So like it was actually like kind of technically challenging in a lot of ways and really like engaging in this really cool way. Like it was just this like super intimate relationship with the trail that I hadn’t really gotten to experience ⁓ prior to that. ⁓ But other areas like I’m always gonna have a soft spot for the Backbone Trail, which is a 70 mile through hike that I completed in 2023.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (08:32)
Yeah. Yeah.

Halle (08:56)
That goes across the Santa Monica Mountains, which is the mountain range that I learned to hike in. So that’s like super near and dear to my heart. ⁓ And then also like I’ve gained such a love for certain sections of the John Muir Trail as well, which is where I did a lot of my guide miles this past summer season.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (09:12)
Mm-hmm.

Halle (09:17)
Absolutely in love with the Whitney zone and that whole surrounding area through like Sequoia National Park and even the iceberg lake ⁓ side of the mountain. I just think it’s so special. ⁓ And then like further north on the JMT, I love the Donahue Pass area and like Lyle Canyon right below the pass and the glacier, what’s left of the glacier. That area is just wild and it’s just absolutely pure magic.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (09:47)
everything sounds so incredible. And it just makes me have such an appreciation for what we have available to us in this country that we can explore and just appreciate the beauty of this country, because I think we’re really lucky that we have so many different terrains, know, different, different places. I’m glad I have you on because you are truly an expert. You’ve been everywhere. I love it. I love it.

Halle (09:54)
Thank you.

Absolutely.

thank you. Thank you.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (10:10)
So say you’re a first time backpacker, ⁓ what would be a good beginner trail for somebody like myself who doesn’t really go backpacking? I’ll do day hikes all day, but backpacking is, I haven’t really done that, so.

Halle (10:14)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Totally. I mean, I think like what it comes down to is more about the qualities to look for in a trail versus the trail itself because everybody’s physical capabilities are so different from each other and everyone lives in different parts of the country as well. So like the trails that like I have access to here in California,

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (10:32)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Halle (10:45)
are gonna be so different than what somebody on the East Coast has access to or someone in the Midwest. ⁓ And so I think like the main thing is to make sure that you’re keeping it like super short and sweet for that first trip. ⁓ Two nights is so perfect, ⁓ absolutely. Like you don’t need to do a lot of miles. You don’t need to summit a mountain. Like I always see these people who are like, I’m gonna go do a 14er for my first backpacking trip. And it’s like,

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (10:48)
Yes. Yeah.

Maybe like a couple nights, like two nights.

Halle (11:14)
You don’t need to do something that big to feel like you’re out in the back country, if that makes sense, right?

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (11:19)
Yeah.

Halle (11:25)
But yeah, your first trip is for seeing whether or not you like the sport.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (11:31)
Yes, that makes sense. Yeah.

Halle (11:31)
more than anything, right?

So I recommend taking like what you normally do for a day hike and subtracting like three or four miles from that for your daily average. ⁓ Definitely a short trip, one to two nights is perfect. And that way you can truly focus on like paying attention to how you feel and give yourself like a good amount of time in the evenings to troubleshoot gear if you have to. I also recommend doing something that has like

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (11:56)
Yeah.

Halle (12:00)
pretty obvious campsites available. ⁓ I know that a lot of people are very stressed about, how do I know where to camp, right? ⁓ And you can usually find that information pretty accessibly online, but there are definitely areas that are better for that, right? So, I mean, I’ve done a lot of my guiding here in California and just on the West Coast in general. ⁓ So like Channel Islands National Park, awesome for people who are

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (12:16)
Mm-hmm.

Halle (12:30)
stressed about like having to find a campsite because there’s designated campsites. So it’s like you’re hiking to your campsite and you are in the backcountry because you’re dropped off on the island, right? But you have an assigned campsite, you have a food locker, so you don’t need to kind of think about all of those logistics for that first time out. You can kind of use that energy to like think about other things. ⁓ Yeah, think about like your gear, think about how you’re feeling, think about

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (12:33)
Okay, that’s good.

Yeah.

That’s nice.

Yeah.

Halle (13:00)
you know, ⁓ just getting there and everything that takes to get to your campsite. ⁓ I will say in the High Sierra, my top recommendation for beginners is Green Lake in the Hoover Wilderness. It’s only three miles to the lake. ⁓ Easy water sources, easy to find campsites, absolutely gorgeous. ⁓ But you do need a permit. It’s only $30. But yeah.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (13:04)
Yeah.

Okay.

Okay, that’s not bad. Yeah.

Halle (13:30)
But it’s really true. Yeah, pretty much. Pretty

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (13:30)
I’m paying for your campsite at that point, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Halle (13:34)
much. But yeah, that’s where I used to guide wilderness skills courses ⁓ this past summer for people who wanted that kind of intro to backpacking.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (13:44)
Is there like a best time of year for anyone to try backpacking? Do you have, I mean, a recommendation for that? Obviously not winter, probably not.

Halle (13:50)
Yeah. Yeah, I wouldn’t recommend winter unless you’re

like in a part of the country where that’s your best weather, right? You know, because really, like, I automatically want to say like, summer is going to be your best bet. But it’s so dependent on where you live or where you’re trying to go. You know, most of the country

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (13:58)
Yeah, yeah, that’s true. That’s true. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

That’s true, yeah.

Halle (14:15)
Summer is gonna be great. Fall might also be really awesome because it starts to cool down. You’re not gonna be dealing with heat. Heat exhaustion won’t be like as big of a factor. You know, a huge thing to think about is like, are my water sources going to be available? You also don’t wanna be dealing with snow on the trails or weird weather, which I feel like can be…

a little bit more prevalent in the springtime across the country. ⁓ Water sources are gonna be flowing more abundantly earlier in the season, especially if you live somewhere where you’re dealing with snow melt, ⁓ because all of that comes from snow. ⁓ But fall is also really nice for the cooler weather. you know, there’s that. If you’re in the desert though, I would say like actually aim for spring, because that is gonna be a little bit more reliable with.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (14:42)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Little bit, yeah.

Halle (15:06)
with water and pretty good weather. Winter can be good in the desert too. I’ve done some Death Valley ⁓ backpacking. Yeah, depends on what desert for sure. Yeah.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (15:13)
Yeah, if it doesn’t get like too cold at night, right? mean, yeah. Yeah.

would you say like daylight is a big factor too, because obviously as you’re getting into fall, the sun’s coming down earlier and earlier. So is daylight something that you would also consider something for someone, a first timer to consider?

Halle (15:22)
Thank

Yeah, 100%. That’s kind of why my immediate instinct is to just say, go for the summer. Like July, awesome. July is a great time of year to go. But yeah, of course, lots of daylight. gives you a lot of time to get to your campsite. You can take a lot of breaks. It’s not a big deal. Obviously, that is something that you do have to think about in the winter. But also, there’s a lot of people who really don’t do well with hot weather. So it’s kind of like finding that balance of,

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (15:38)
Summer. Yeah.

Got all the daylight.

Yeah.

Halle (16:02)
what is going to work for you, making sure that you have the right gear ⁓ to actually be able to handle yourself ⁓ if it were to get dark Definitely make sure you have a headlamp. Definitely make sure you have extra batteries.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (16:14)
that actually

leads us into a great, the next question I have is, what are some must have items when backpacking? And that’s fine. Everyone get out your notebook, so start taking notes.

Halle (16:17)
Thank

Yeah, this is going to be a long answer. I’m so sorry. Yeah, no, truly, truly.

⁓ So there’s definitely a base setup that I always recommend that people start with. ⁓ But I will say, if you’re not sure if you’re going to like the sport, rent gear or borrow from a friend for that first trip. ⁓ Backpacking gear is so expensive. ⁓ So like making sure that

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (16:34)
Mm-hmm.

It’s smart.

So expensive, yes?

Halle (16:48)
you’re getting stuff that’s gonna last you, you don’t just buy the cheap thing, just because you are gonna have to replace stuff. I call it the big six. So you’ve got the 10 essentials, which I’ll get into in a little bit, which is gonna be carrying on a day hike.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (17:02)
Okay.

Halle (17:04)
anyway, it’s kind of like your base safety gear. But I always say like you have the big six of backpacking, which is a backpack that fits you. ⁓ So go go and get properly fitted. ⁓ Most gear shops are going to be able to help with pack fits. ⁓ So go to your local gear shop, ask them to help you fit a pack. They do come in sizes, and they do come in women’s or men’s and they are like built for different body types. I found that I don’t like

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (17:05)
Yes.

Okay.

Halle (17:33)
to use men’s packs generally just because I have a shorter torso. So being able to find that gear that truly works for your body is actually going to be huge for injury prevention. So that is super important. So backpack is the first one. You obviously need something that you can carry everything in. ⁓ The other stuff is going to be your sleeping pad, sleeping bag, tent, water filtration, and your cook system.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (17:36)
Mm-hmm.

Halle (18:01)
I think that’s six, right? One, two, three, yep, that’s six. For your sleep system, which is your sleeping bag, your sleeping pad, and your tent, ⁓ A, make sure that your gear works before you go out. ⁓ That’s huge. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you don’t want to be fumbling with a tent that you’ve never put up before in a surprise thunderstorm, right? You want to kind of know how everything works.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (18:03)
I think so.

Yeah, and that you know how to use it. Like you can put up your tent.

Yeah, no.

Halle (18:30)
You also want to make sure that your tent is actually waterproof, especially if you’re borrowing gear from a friend instead of like renting it from a gear shop or a company that does gear rentals, because they should be testing their gear pretty regularly. But like if you’re borrowing your friend’s old tent, make sure that that is actually waterproof because again, thunderstorms can happen. And the last thing you want to do is be

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (18:33)
Yeah, that’s smart.

Yeah.

Yes.

Halle (18:56)
stuck out there and not be able to keep yourself dry. That can be really dangerous. ⁓ And then, yeah, make sure that you’re checking the temperature ratings on both your sleeping pad and your sleeping bag, ⁓ because they do come in different temperature ratings. And your sleeping pad is actually a way bigger deal than a lot of people think. You lose most of your heat through the ground when you’re sleeping in a tent.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (18:59)
Yeah. Yeah.

Halle (19:21)
So making sure that you have something underneath you that is gonna keep you warm is gonna be huge, especially if you’re doing like inflatable sleeping pads. Those temperature ratings are going to change and fluctuate. know, the more ultra light pads are not gonna be as warm, but they should, most of them these days should all be insulated. If you’re going really cold weather camping, I would recommend a closed cell foam pad, which is, you know, your classic fold up.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (19:21)
Mm-hmm.

Halle (19:47)
thermo rest. Yeah, because those are reliable and they are going to keep you warm. They might not be as comfortable, but they are going to save your life if need be. ⁓

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (19:47)
Yeah, the accordion style, yeah.

I didn’t

realize that the sleeping pads had temperature ratings too. I knew the sleeping bags did, but I didn’t know the mats did. So thanks for that information. It’s good to know.

Halle (20:01)
Yeah

Yeah, yeah, of course,

of course. ⁓ Yeah, and then the sleeping bags, yes, like you mentioned, do have a temperature rating. And they have an extreme rating and then they have a comfort rating. So essentially, that extreme rating is going to be ⁓ what is going to save your life? What is going to, you know, be that savior when you are stuck in that surprise snowstorm? And maybe it’s colder than you thought ⁓ versus like

your comfort rating is like where you’re actually gonna get like a really good night’s sleep, water filtration. I carry two different types of water filtration on every trip, at least two. ⁓ So one of those is sometimes my stove, because I can always boil

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (20:45)
Okay.

Halle (20:51)
that’s actually the safest, like, guarantee that you’re actually gonna kill everything. my favorite personal type of water filtration is a squeeze filter. Those can get a little bit complicated in cold weather, so just like make sure that you’re choosing gear that kind of works for the trip that you’re gonna be on.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (20:55)
That’s so

Halle (21:09)
You know, there’s always like iodine tablets or aqua and those can be a little bit complicated as well. They’re not really great to be consuming for like long periods of time.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (21:12)
Yeah.

They look good in a pinch,

Halle (21:19)
yeah, if you’re going out like every once in a while, using iodine, not a big deal. But if you’re using it all the time, if you’re, you know, relying on iodine on the PCT, not gonna have the best long term effects. I just learned that recently through a friend who’s also a backpacking guide.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (21:30)
Yeah.

Well, that’s good to know.

Halle (21:37)
so water filtration. mean, I think that’s something that maybe a lot of people don’t think about or put a lot of emphasis on. But it is something that is really important. And it’s just as important to have a way to filter water as it is to have access to those water sources.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (21:51)
to water.

Halle (21:52)
Yeah, other things to consider, ⁓ your clothes and your layers. ⁓ You know, don’t, yeah, you don’t need anything super fancy, right? I will bring just one outfit to hike in, one outfit to sleep in. ⁓ You know, my sleep clothes can also double as a base layer.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (21:57)
Typical hiking.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Halle (22:14)
if I’m hiking and it’s super cold out, I tend, my sleep clothes tend to be my merino wool ⁓ base layers, which are really good for keeping you warm. They can also layer under your hiking pants. ⁓ Exactly, exactly. And that’s why I don’t recommend people bring, you know, a ton of changes of clothes. ⁓

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (22:28)
That’s smart use of your space too in your bag.

Yeah, you don’t need that.

Halle (22:38)
Yeah, I think a lot of people, ⁓ you know, think that they need to bring a lot of changes of clothes, but really what you need to be focusing on is your layers. you know, base layer. ⁓ I like to have a fleece always. ⁓ Sometimes I’ll bring an insulating layer. That’s my puffy back there behind me, which you can see in the video.

And then I always also like to have a wind or rain layer that can go on top of the puffy. The puffy is great for wind generally, but it is down and it is going to be a problem if it gets rained on. So making sure that I have something that is ⁓ waterproof is huge. ⁓ I may or may not bring rain pants. It depends on where I am. If I’m in Alaska, the rain pants are definitely coming.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (23:01)
That’s smart, yeah.

Yeah

Halle (23:24)
Um,

it just, it just totally depends. Um, and then of course you want good shoes. Um, if you’re already a hiker, like if you already do a lot of day hiking, you don’t need to buy new shoes. Just make sure that what you have is broken in, um, so that you’re not dealing with, uh,

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (23:40)
You want

Halle (23:40)
Especially because when you’re backpacking, you might be dealing with more like river crossings where your feet might get wet and that,

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (23:46)
Mm-hmm.

Halle (23:47)
make you more prone to blisters. And also just carrying more weight that your body is not used to, like that can definitely add to injury risk as well. So just making sure that your shoes are really well broken in and that you have something that works for you. I’m constantly getting questions about what shoes I recommend and it’s like, just go and try on shoes. Yeah, exactly.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (24:07)
Yeah, everyone’s feet is different. And I know

some people like swear by some people swear by trail runners, some people swear by their hiking boots. So everyone’s different. Yeah.

Halle (24:16)
⁓

Yeah, yeah, I’m a trail runner girly for sure.

keeping that in mind and keeping in mind like what footwear actually like overall works for your entire body is really important. So just use what is comfortable for you and what you actually like. Something else that you might need to think about in terms of gear is potentially food storage.

it depends on where you are. depends on where you are and where you’re going. Yeah. So, so you guys use bear bags over there. We use bear cans, ⁓ here in the Sierra, which are so heavy. ⁓ but, ⁓ they keep the bears away, which, well, they keep the bears out of your food. but it’s really important to know what the regulations are and the requirements are.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (24:37)
Yes, yeah. Over here we need the bear bags.

Okay.

Halle (25:00)
for the area that you’re gonna be because you don’t wanna show up in Yosemite and learn right then and there that you need to now rent a bear can.

it is something to think about when you are like organizing your pack for the first time and making sure that everything fits. if you know that you are going to need something as big and bulky as a bear can, just like keeping that in mind before you get to the park is going to be huge.

having a way to go to the bathroom You know, I think a lot of people don’t think about that. Yeah, but also it goes back to the regulations, right? because some areas are totally fine with you digging cat holes,

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (25:26)
Pack a shovel with you.

Halle (25:37)
so carrying a trowel slash poop kit, ⁓ which usually for me consists of ⁓ toilet paper and a couple of I actually bring dog poop bags to pack my toilet paper out with me because those are literally meant to carry waste.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (25:40)
Yeah.

Smart, smart.

Halle (25:53)
They’re also easy to just untie and you can just keep adding to it throughout your trip. ⁓ And then some hand sanitizer, of course. But some areas that are drier, ⁓ so the desert and ⁓ up in the high alpine, so you’ll find that in Colorado and the high Sierra here, ⁓ do require wag bags. So they actually require for you to pack out all of your waste. So making sure that you

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (26:15)
Okay.

Okay.

Halle (26:20)
know about that and are prepared for that ⁓ is really important because leave no trace is incredibly important.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (26:28)
Very important.

Halle (26:29)
In terms of other things gear-wise that I’d recommend, like carry a map. ⁓ Yeah, carry a paper map. ⁓

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (26:36)
smart. It’s like, it’s

like the obvious thing that everyone forgets.

Halle (26:43)
Yep, exactly. Yeah, carry a map, carry a headlamp, carry another safety device. If you’re doing a lot of outdoor activity, I really recommend getting a Garmin InReach Mini.

Having the ability to satellite call or satellite message people is going to just bring so much peace of mind. it’s always really nice to just be able to like text my emergency contact, like, hey, made it to camp, this is where I am. You can send them an exact GPS coordinate of where you are.

And that way somebody knows where you are. And it generally just makes the whole experience a lot safer.

giving somebody your plan ahead of time is huge. You know, just being like, hey, like I’m going in at this trailhead, this is where I’m planning on camping. This is when I’m supposed to be back in cell service. And this is what to do if I’m not back.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (27:35)
even if you’re not by yourself backpacking, still somebody not with you should know where you are, like what the plan is.

Halle (27:37)
you

if you were to get hurt or if your friend were to get hurt it is really essential for somebody to have that information of, know, what trail were you on? Where were you planning on going? Because, you know, 24 hours passes past when you were supposed to be back and they want to call search and rescue. They need to have that information.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (27:58)
Yeah, they need to

Halle (27:59)
yeah and ⁓ the ten essentials just because I have mentioned it a couple times. So you’ve got navigation, which we just talked about.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (28:06)
Mm-hmm.

Halle (28:07)
⁓ And

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (28:07)
Yes.

Halle (28:08)
also the Garmin InReach does connect to the Explore app, the Garmin Explore app. And that also has a map on it as well. So, you know, really good to cover all your bases. I also like to recommend that if you are gonna be relying on your phone for navigation, bring a battery bank ⁓ because your phone will die, especially if it’s cold out, sun protection.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (28:13)
okay, yeah.

That’s smart, yep.

You will die.

Halle (28:30)
is huge. I’m a big sun hoodie girly. sun protection in the form of whatever is the most comfortable for you. So whether that’s sunblock, a hat, definitely bring sunglasses, especially if you’re going up into the alpine. The UV up there is just so strong. something to think about. Insulation and warmth. So I kind of talked about that when I was talking about layering, but it’s, you know, just a huge thing that

maybe people don’t think about, especially if you’re going out in the summer, ⁓ you know, make sure that you have those layers because it does get cold at night.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (28:58)
Mm-hmm.

Halle (29:03)
Illumination, I’ve mentioned headlamps a couple times. ⁓ Make sure you have extra batteries for that. ⁓ Makes a huge difference. You really don’t want to be caught in the dark

in terms of safety, first aid is also on the 10 essentials. even if it’s like your super basic first aid kit, like it does not need to be anything super fancy.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (29:16)
Oh, 100%. Yep.

Yeah.

Halle (29:22)
but just like having things like gauze ace bandage, Benadryl

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (29:25)
Yeah, was gonna

yeah.

Halle (29:28)
doesn’t

need to be super fancy, but you should have something. On the 10 essentials as well is something to make fire with.

you know, something to be able to, to generate heat with is, is kind of what that is implying. even if it’s just like, I have a lighter to light my butane stove. ⁓ that is, great because you can warm your hands up.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (29:49)
You definitely need that.

Halle (29:50)
You can

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (29:50)
Yeah.

Halle (29:51)
boil water, you can make a hot water bottle to keep in your sleeping bag and keep yourself warm if need be. A repair kit is on the list of the 10 essentials. So I usually just bring my Leatherman

It’s a heavy, but I think it’s worth it.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (30:04)
it is heavy.

It’s worth it.

Halle (30:09)
having my little pocket knife on there, having the pliers, having a can opener, like those kinds of things, just because you never know what might be needed when you are in the back country. having a patch kit is really good. ⁓ Knowing how to potentially patch your inflatable sleeping pad.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (30:15)
Mm-hmm.

Halle (30:27)
is really essential as well. just kind of like being prepared for like when gear does break because it does happen. And then food and water, obviously. ⁓

or water filtration, you know, you are gonna run out of water if you’re backpacking, if you’re out for a few days, but having your water filter is really huge. And then shelter, ⁓ which we’ve already talked about tents. So yeah, most beginner backpackers are gonna be sleeping in a tent. There are some other options that, you you might kind of graduate into like tarps and flies or bivy sacks as you become a little bit more comfortable with sleeping in the backcountry, but tents are kind of where I would recommend.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (30:51)
to tempt you.

Halle (31:07)
⁓ starting

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (31:08)
You mentioned food, is there any kind of food that you would recommend to bring on a backpacking trip?

Halle (31:13)
Yeah, so for beginners, it is really convenient that we are living in a time where we have these pre-made dehydrated meals that are just available at most outdoor shops. Even like the grocery store here in my little mountain town sells dehydrated meals,

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (31:24)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Halle (31:32)
I’ve been loving Good To Go as a brand for like healthy dinners. But there’s like such a large selection.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (31:35)
Mm-hmm.

Halle (31:39)
And it’s really important to just like buy stuff that you know you’re gonna like ⁓ and you know you’re gonna eat. If you’re super on a budget, ⁓ just bringing like boxed mac and cheese.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (31:44)
Yeah, yeah.

Halle (31:51)
is super easy. Even like the Knorr rice or pasta sides, a lot of food hikers ⁓ use those and yeah. Yeah, and then you can, yeah, and then you can just like throw in some whatever, you know, protein. Exactly.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (31:52)
that’s smart.

That’s so smart. I wouldn’t even think of that. But yeah, that’s so smart. Yeah. And very reasonably priced.

Like throwing like a pack of tuna or something and you’re good to go.

Halle (32:12)
Yeah. And I deal with clients who have all sorts of dietary restrictions and you know, there’s gluten free options that are out there. there’s vegan options, there’s vegetarian options, there’s pescatarian options. Like we are living in like such an innovative time when it comes to dehydrated food. But I think like really what it comes down to is buying food and bringing food that you

Genuinely enjoy. ⁓ You know, bring stuff that you’re actually going to eat. know, don’t bring just, you know, trail mix as your snack just because it’s a quote unquote hiking snack.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (32:36)
Yeah.

Halle (32:45)
You can think outside the box and you can bring things that like are genuinely going to taste good to you and are going to motivate you to eat. Because if you’re just stuck with a bunch of food that you don’t want to eat, you are going to be putting yourself in a really tricky situation. Like you need to be in taking calories when you’re crushing miles and carrying weight on the trail.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (33:01)
Yeah.

Halle (33:06)
I like to even bring candy on the trail. I’ll bring a bag of Sour Patch Kids and keep it in my hip belt pocket because that sugar boost is really good. I also like to bring an electrolyte packet per day just because you are trying to upkeep your body while you are going through this pretty physically demanding activity.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (33:10)
Mm-hmm.

So I want to ask you, since you’ve been backpacking for so long now and a guide and everything like that, do you have any like funny or ⁓ no, like story that you would like to share that the audience might find enjoyable?

Halle (33:31)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I

I could just talk about the Timberline Trail. I actually had a story published about the Timberline Trail back in, what was that, spring of 2024 in an anthology called Blood, Sweat, Tears, not to self-plug, but also to self-plug.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (33:49)
Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Well, we did have Christine Reed on the podcast, so we’ve already plugged the book. We can plug it again.

Halle (34:01)
I’m feeling close.

Beautiful, beautiful.

I’m like right in the middle, like directly in the middle of the book. But I talk about the Timberline Trail in ⁓ my story. And specifically, I talk about the moment where I have to cross the Elliott Glacier River, it was deep. It was above my knees. ⁓ And I’m not a large person.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (34:09)
Love it.

no.

Halle (34:22)
I’m only like 5’5″, so ⁓ you know, that’s a lot of me that’s in this very cold river. ⁓ There is a bridge there now, apparently, which is crazy. ⁓ I know, right? ⁓ But yeah, it was one of those river crossings, and I’d done tons of river crossings in the past before, but it’s one of those river crossings that you kind of get warnings about. ⁓ Like everybody who’s going in the other direction was like, hey,

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (34:22)
No.

That takes the fun out of it now.

Halle (34:51)
make sure that you’re crossing this river in the morning instead of in the afternoon. And that’s because snow melt tends to increase in the afternoon as it gets hotter. ⁓ I didn’t really have a choice with that timeline ⁓ just because of where I planned on camping on that trail. And I just kept telling myself like, it’ll be fine, it’ll be fine. But the river was really deep. It was really cold and it was going really

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (35:00)
That makes sense, yeah.

Halle (35:16)
There were definitely moments where I was like stepping into the water and then being like, nope, backing back out. I have my teevahs on because I didn’t want to get my boots wet My teevahs are getting like absolutely ripped off of my feet because the river is going so hard.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (35:31)
my goodness.

Halle (35:31)
Eventually,

another solo hiker kind of passes me and he’s this like six foot tall dude who runs across the river, drops his pack, comes back across like halfway to like where it was stable for him to stand and he like sticks his hand out to me. So he essentially like pulls me across the river. ⁓

which I’m glad he did because, you know, who knows what could have happened. I could have ended up very wet and very cold. I could have ended up down the river a ways. ⁓ If there hadn’t been somebody else there, it also could have been

And we ended up hiking most of the last day together, ⁓ which was really cool to just have someone to talk to, because I had done two days totally solo up until that point.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (36:17)
that like when you’re backpacking solo? Do you start to go little stir crazy start talking to all the animals you see on the trail?

Halle (36:18)
Thank

Yeah.

I mean, it depends on where I am. If I’m in bear country, I am talking to myself the whole time.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (36:30)
yeah, yeah, well you want

everyone to know that you’re there. Don’t come near me.

Halle (36:33)
Yeah, exactly.

No, I do enjoy backpacking solo. ⁓ I tend to go and solo backpack when I need to like process stuff ⁓ and like be in my head a little bit and like think through things. ⁓ I think a lot of people will solo backpack because it kind of gets them out of their head. It does the opposite for me. ⁓ But it allows me to like have that like solitude to work through whatever is going on in my life and reset and it’s…

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (36:45)
Okay.

Halle (37:02)
It’s really cool. It’s kind of like pausing time in a way, because it’s like, cool, I’m going to like step away and not be on my phone and I’m going to just be in nature. And then I get to like reenter society having had this really cool experience.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (37:14)
Before I let you go, I ask everybody this. If you could only do one kind of hike for the rest of your life, would it be a hike that would lead to a waterfall or would it be a hike that would lead to a really beautiful view?

Halle (37:17)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. I’m gonna go with the really beautiful view. I don’t really love the word peak bagger, but I do tend to gravitate toward mountain summits. the reason why I gravitate toward mountain summits is because there is this really special moment where you get to the top of whatever mountain you’re.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (37:39)
Nuh.

Mm-hmm.

Halle (37:56)
aiming for and you finally get to see the view that’s on the other side of it. And that is so special and so magical. And waterfalls are awesome. I actually used to be a waterfall hiking guide in Oregon a few years ago. Have such a special place in my heart for all the waterfalls. Do go chasing waterfalls, definitely. But I will say a big expansive view is just absolutely life changing.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (38:01)
Yeah.

Okay.

So before I let you go, ⁓ where can everyone find you? you’re on social media, you’re online.

Halle (38:29)
Yeah, so I’m Halle Treks on all platforms. So that’s H-A-L-L-E-T-R-E-K-S. ⁓ So I’m mostly active on Instagram and TikTok. ⁓ Threads is a new one. So sometimes I do be sure my opinion’s on threads. But yeah, mostly Instagram and TikTok,

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (38:42)
Yes, it is.

Thank you so much for sharing your expertise because I definitely learned a lot from you. ⁓ You’ve kind of made me like, maybe I could do some backpacking, maybe. But I appreciate your time and your expertise and thank you so much for being here.

Halle (39:00)
You definitely could. You definitely could.

Yeah, thank you so much for having me. It was a really, really fun time.

Backpacking the Appalchian Trail With Seven Kids: Laura Tolbert Survived to Tell the Tale!

Lauren Stites — Tue, 20 Jan 2026 12:00:00 +0000

APPLE | SPOTIFY | YOUTUBE

Thru-Hiking the Appalachian Trail As a Family of Nine

Completing the Appalachian Trail in general is a true feat! Over 2000 miles, it takes about 5-7 months to hike the whole trail from Georgia to Maine.

And the Tolbert family did it!!

On the 17th episode of Her Side of the Trail, Laura Tolbert describes the good, the bad, and the ugly of hiking the Appalachian Trail with seven kids, ages 7 to 18. She talks about the planning process (they started talking about doing the trail when she was pregnant with her youngest), how they managed to take the time off work and school, and all of the mishaps and fun things along the way.

You can learn more about the Tolberts’ experience by watching videos on their YouTube page or reading Laura’s blog.

What We Talk About This Episode

[00:01:58] Getting Back to Real Life: Laura shares about the transition back to reality after completing the Appalachian Trail with her family

[00:02:43] Family Make Up: Laura describes her family, including how many children she has and their ages

[00:03:42] Hatching the Idea: Laura discusses when they decided to hike the trail and getting the kids onboard

[00:06:05] Missing School and Work: Laura talks about the process of taking off work and making sure the kids didn’t miss out on schooling

[00:08:21] Prep Hikes: Laura describes the various mini backpacking trips her family completed to prepare for the big hike

[00:11:22 Researching and Planning: Laura shares the research that was done about the trail and the required permits before doing the Appalachian Trail, and also how they planned out their stops.

[00:14:01 Eating on the Trail: Laura discusses how, where, and when they would acquire food while hiking the Appalachian Trail

[00:17:40 Weather: Laura describes the varying weather they encountered along the trail, from below-freezing nights to sweltering hot days

[00:21:42 Mishaps: Laura shares stories about some of the things that went wrong on their hike

[00:25:50 Trail Angels: Laura shows her appreciation for Trail Angels and things that strangers did for them during their time on the Appalachian Trail

[00:28:02 Meeting Other Families: Laura talks about other large families that were also thru-hiking the Appalachian Trail at the same time

[00:28:52 Friends and Family: Laura expresses gratitude to her friends and family members who took the time to meet them at various points along the trail

[00:31:11 The Bad: Laura shares about some of the stuff she didn’t like about backpacking the Appalachian Trail

[00:32:45 Sibling Relationships: Laura discusses how her older kids helped out, keeping the younger children entertained while on the trail

[00:34:31 Is This a One-Time Experience?: Laura talks about the possibility of her family doing another big backpacking trip together

[00:36:31 Trail Traditions: Lauren describes some of the fun trail traditions and which ones their family participated in

Laura Tolbert (00:00)
We actually only took one trip as all nine of us before we went. It was supposed to be six days and we only did four and then we came home. And that was honestly really discouraging kind of because like we couldn’t even do six days and now we think we can do six months.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (00:03)
Okay.

Yeah.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (00:27)
On today’s episode, we’re speaking with Laura Tolbert. And let me tell you how excited I am to be speaking with Laura Tolbert.

She and her family, which includes herself, her husband, and her seven kids completed the Appalachian Trail from March through September of 2025. And she’s been planning this for a while, and I’ve been following her social media about the planning, and I’ve been so excited for them to embark on this crazy journey, seven kids on the Appalachian Trail. Okay.

But I’ve been so excited to follow her adventure. So every day checking in, she would share like a ⁓ tidbit from the day every day. So I’ve been, you know, religiously stalking her social medias. And then as soon as she was done, I was like, please be on my podcast. I cannot wait to talk to you. I can’t wait to get more information, but also share it with everybody because

I know other people are interested in hiking the Appalachian Trail and they want to know, it possible? Is it plausible to do this with kids? And Laura will let you know all the good, the bad and the ugly about it. So without further ado, I’m so excited to share this episode with you. So let’s get into it.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (01:49)
Hi, Laura. Thank you so much for joining me today. I’m so excited to talk to you about your experience on the Appalachian Trail. ⁓ How are you doing? How you feeling? Now you’re back home.

Laura Tolbert (01:58)
Hey Lauren, I am feeling great. It’s really, really nice to just all the things we were dreaming about missing when we were gone. Now we have them all back.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (02:09)
Now you have it all

back. You have a new appreciation for all of that too, right?

Laura Tolbert (02:13)
Yes, yes, the

house is just like exactly as it was when we left it and and that’s kind of kind of nice.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (02:20)
It is

nice to return to like the normalcy, the, you know, the day to day, right? The regular, the day to day.

Laura Tolbert (02:23)
Yeah, right. There were teams

that were familiar and some we liked, some we liked less, but yes, it’s really great to be back.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (02:33)
just so the audience knows, Laura just completed the full Appalachian Trail with her family. tell me who is in your family, ages, how many, you have a lot of kids. So will give me the breakdown?

Laura Tolbert (02:43)
Yes,

yes. So my husband and I both went and then we have seven kids. Our oldest is 18 and we have a 16 year old and then we have a 15 year old and a 13 year old who both had birthdays on the trail. So they started at 12 and 14. I think one thought it was fun and one thought it was kind of maybe not her first choice.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (02:58)
That’s fun! What a fun way to celebrate!

Okay.

Laura Tolbert (03:07)
And

then we have an 11 year old, nine year old, and a now eight year old who was seven for the whole hike

and turned eight

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (03:13)
wow. That’s I

Laura Tolbert (03:14)
couple days after we got back. Yes. Yes. Right. And that definitely impacted how the hike went. Yes. Yeah, for sure.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (03:16)
Yeah, that’s a good crew, though, that’s a big age difference, too, right, especially between 18 to seven. Totally different. Yeah, I was going to say skill level speed, you know, all of that. So

I know this decision was made a few years ago, to hike the Appalachian Trail. why did you decide you want to do this? And then how did you?

Laura Tolbert (03:33)
Yes.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (03:38)
decide that as a family that everyone was gonna be doing this.

Laura Tolbert (03:42)
Yeah, my husband

would joke that this was like the most planned out midlife crisis that anybody could have because we planned it for about seven years when I was pregnant with our youngest is when we hatched the idea. he had had a dream of doing this since middle school, but I didn’t even know what backpacking was like that word had no context for me at all until we were probably married for at least five years, maybe 10.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (03:49)
I love that.

wow.

Did he get you into backpacking and hiking and everything or…

Laura Tolbert (04:15)
He

he did we we camped together we met in middle school and so we camped together with a friend group in high school But not really a hiking kind of camping just like hanging around campfire kind of thing But then after we got married we went to Glacier National Park on our honeymoon and took a long hike There and it just sort of gradually became part of what our family did over the years that high school campout turned into people

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (04:20)
Okay.

Laura Tolbert (04:45)
bringing their spouses and children. And then it just kind of grew from there. And so then he suggested maybe he could do this someday. And I was like, oh, that’s nice. Maybe when the kids are gone. And then we watched some like a documentary and the documentary was really positive and made it seem really fun. And we knew that our youngest was gonna be our last one.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (04:48)
That’s fun.

Yeah.

Laura Tolbert (05:11)
And we were just like, let’s all go. It’ll be great. But none of us had ever gone backpacking before, except for my husband, when we made that decision. So then it was like seven years of figuring out, do we actually like doing this? And we did. So we kept, kept planning.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (05:13)
Let’s do it.

Gotcha. Gotcha.

Yeah.

how hard was it to convince the kids that you guys were gonna do this?

Laura Tolbert (05:33)
I mean, it really wasn’t difficult. The younger ones, it kind of was just part of their growing up. Like, we’re planning for this, this is what we’re doing. The older ones, they watched that documentary too. So they were like, oh, this does look

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (05:36)
Okay.

⁓

Laura Tolbert (05:50)
So it really wasn’t difficult to convince people that.

that they would be willing to do it. There were definitely some kids that were really excited and some kids that were like, okay, I’ll get this and we’ll do it and it’ll be behind us. Yes, exactly.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (06:05)
We’ll check that box and never have to look at it again.

how did you handle school then on the trail? You homeschool, correct?

Laura Tolbert (06:15)
Yes, we homeschool and I did not want to have to have.

that kind of hanging over our heads while we were out there. So we started in July, on July 1st of 2024, we started school, which was really painful. I do not like doing schoolwork in the summer. know some homeschoolers do, but I’m like a full summer break homeschooler. And so we started on July 1st so that we were done before we left. And then we’re actually starting, we haven’t started yet. We just got back.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (06:20)
Yeah.

And to give up your summer.

Gotcha.

Laura Tolbert (06:46)
We finished at the very end of September and then we’re starting school mid-October. We’re starting it next week.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (06:52)
Okay,

okay, so it was worth the sacrifice of the summer to be able to thoroughly enjoy the trail. Yeah, yeah.

Laura Tolbert (06:55)
Yes, yes, and maybe the sacrifice. Yes, maybe

two summers because I think we’ll have to go into next summer a little bit, but that’s okay. And they learned a lot on the trail. harder to quantify what

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (07:03)
Yeah. Yeah. there’s so much to learn.

a lot of real life experience, a lot of botany, a lot of geology. You know, they’re definitely learning a lot of that. Now, how about work then? did you just take a six month sabbatical?

Laura Tolbert (07:11)
Yes. Yes. For sure.

I mean, I don’t work outside the home. Since I’m homeschooling, that’s my full-time job. But my husband took a seven month leave of absence from his work and he talked to them about that five years ago to kind of prepare. He had some big long-term projects he was working on. So just kind of prepare them. You can give me a leave of absence or I’m going to quit. and they,

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (07:23)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, that is a full-time job.

Okay. Okay.

Okay.

Laura Tolbert (07:49)
I mean, it really, it was good that they were willing to do that, because that made it possible for us to keep his insurance while we were gone, which was helpful. didn’t, thankfully, didn’t need it on the trail, but ⁓ it was a good thing to have just in case. And ⁓ it just is a little bit more seamless. He doesn’t have to come back and worry about sending applications. So we’re really thankful he could do it that way.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (07:53)
Yes.

That’s awesome.

Yes.

Yeah, no, that’s

that’s incredible that they allowed him to do that. But obviously, I mean, if he’s been with the company for years and they, you know, they see him as valuable, they’re going to do what they need to to keep him. All right. So let’s talk about preparation, right? Because you don’t just like decide to go backpacking and go backpacking the next day, especially the length of the Appalachian Trail. What did you guys do to prepare? Did you do a lot of like mini backpacking trips and things like that?

Laura Tolbert (08:21)
great.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

We did. We tried to do, starting after we made the decision to go, ⁓ probably two times a year, we’d go with a small group of our families. So not the entire family at once. I mean, we just had a brand new baby at that time. So we didn’t take him. I know people backpack with babies, but we did not do that. ⁓

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (08:44)
Mm-hmm.

Okay. Yeah.

No, if you don’t have to.

Laura Tolbert (09:00)
That was

the next level beyond what we were ready for. And ⁓ we would take a couple trips per year and just try to kind of acclimate like older kids and then gradually incorporate the next kid that was kind of aging into what we envisioned as the right age for what we were doing.

We actually only took one trip as all nine of us before we went. It was supposed to be six days and we only did four and then we came home. And that was honestly really discouraging kind of because like we couldn’t even do six days and now we think we can do six months.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (09:26)
Okay.

Yeah.

Laura Tolbert (09:43)
but my husband was really encouraging. He was like, when we could only do four days because it rained every single day that we were out there and they had to come off the trail just to dry out ourselves and our gear. And then he said, when we are out on the Appalachian trail, if we have to come off after four days for rain, we dry out and we go back. But we only had six days to work with.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (09:50)
Yeah, ⁓ that’s tough.

Yeah.

Laura Tolbert (10:06)
That was comforting, but also that was a little bit nerve-wracking to do one test run and have it only sort of work.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (10:11)
You

The

theater kid in me, I was a theater kid in high school, our saying was always, if you have the bad dress rehearsal, you’ll have a good show. And so that’s what I think about you. You could only do four days because that was your bad dress rehearsal. So you had a good show.

Laura Tolbert (10:23)
Yes.

Yes, yes, and

I’m really thankful it was not the reverse.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (10:32)
where are you located in the US? so where did you do a lot of your your mini hikes, your mini backpacking trips?

Laura Tolbert (10:35)
We’re in Indianapolis,

We did a lot of those in the Smoky Mountains, which is about a seven hour drive from us. It’s not terrible. There are a couple of backpacking trails in Indiana and one of them is actually super hilly and a lot of people use it as a Appalachian Trail training trail. And my husband and oldest daughter did that one.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (10:45)
Okay.

Okay.

Laura Tolbert (11:04)
But we mostly we either went to the Smokies or we went just on little camping trips in our state just to even have people be continually spending time in a camping environment, even if it wasn’t difficult.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (11:18)
Yeah.

you got to get used to being outside, sleeping outdoors, cooking your food, all of that. there had to have been a lot of research of like where the shelters are, where you’re going to stop like and do like, you know, a hotel overnight What kind of.

Laura Tolbert (11:22)
Yes.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (11:34)
research went into that. some of the shelters like, you know, don’t fit your family. So you had to do a lot of research and kind of planning of your stops. How, how long did that take? I feel like that would itself be like a six month process to figure out.

Laura Tolbert (11:47)
Yes, I

think it could be. We actually, ended up only doing probably about four days of planning and research at a time and just doing it on the trail. ⁓ We did some general research beforehand. There are some good things to know, like you need a permit to go through the Smoky Mountains. Like it’s good to just have that kind of stuff on your radar.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (11:57)
wow, okay. ⁓ okay.

Laura Tolbert (12:10)
Otherwise, we had there’s an app it’s called far out and it has a whole trail on there and a lot of information about

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (12:14)
I’ve heard about, yes.

Laura Tolbert (12:19)
different towns that you go through and we would just look at the next the next four or five days and just figure out where are going to get to, where are we going to stay, which shelters. Honestly with our group size we couldn’t really feel very confident counting on almost any shelter because even if it could sleep 12 are we sure that only three other people will be there? I mean our group was so big that we just had to find

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (12:38)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Laura Tolbert (12:47)
places that could have enough space for our four tents almost all the time, which is tricky. ⁓ And a lot of hikers will kind of hike until they just feel like stopping for the day. And we could not do that because we had to know where are we going that we will have space for all of us.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (12:51)
Gotcha. Gotcha.

No.

Laura Tolbert (13:08)
But we really only did four or five days at a time. And then we’d get to someplace, maybe we’d stay at a hotel, or we’d take a half day off to sort of plan the next four or five days.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (13:19)
How many miles did you guys, on average clock, did you keep track of that? How many you were doing every day?

Laura Tolbert (13:24)
⁓

overall we averaged about 11 and a half miles per day, including days when we did not hike at all. yeah, I mean, probably we hike on days we hiked, we probably averaged more like 12 and a half miles. ⁓ but, but yeah, I feel pretty good about that. know that definitely single, you know, single 25 year old men have a much higher average.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (13:28)
That’s good. Yeah, especially with a little one in tow.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

That’s good, I think, yeah.

Yes, no, but with the

group size and the ages that you are with, I think that’s really good actually. So you

Laura Tolbert (13:52)
Yeah. Yeah, I

think that average also helped us be able to enjoy it all the way through, because we were not always up against the clock and exhausted,

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (14:01)
Yes, yes. Exhausted, yeah.

How did you handle food then? Like, you do like some taste testing ahead of time to see what the kids would enjoy? I know a lot of times people like, you know, ship stuff to certain cities, know, towns, whatever, pick up. How did you handle all that?

Laura Tolbert (14:21)
We did not ship ourselves anything. We were wary of…

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (14:24)
Wow.

Laura Tolbert (14:28)
just, we going to make it like we just weren’t sure what is it going to be like? Are we going to be able to make these distances? Just not knowing with a seven year old how to plan that far in advance, what kind of expectations to have? We just, we did not do it. And we also are, we play basketball all winter and we were so busy and I just didn’t even want to think about it. Just like, we’re just going to do basketball and then when that’s done, then we’ll do the trail. But that didn’t mean we

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (14:30)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Gotcha.

Laura Tolbert (14:58)
had we just had to buy everything as we went which worked out really well because sometimes you have something and you love it and then you eat it every single day for a week and then you realize you actually hate it. Yes.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (15:01)
Gotcha.

Then you’re done with it. You’re like, I did like this before.

I’ve been to Harper’s Ferry, so I know there’s like a, you know, trail store there. Were there a lot of places, trail stores in towns,

Laura Tolbert (15:21)
I mean, sometimes it’ll be a big grocery store, a big Walmart, and we had a ton of options. A lot of little towns have a Dollar General.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (15:25)
Mm-hmm.

There you go.

Laura Tolbert (15:30)
and

that usually has a lot of dehydrated, just add water or food. ⁓ And so that worked out. And then some towns only had a tiny little ⁓ country store or even a hostel, a hiker hostel will have some resupply on hand if there’s not a convenience.

store to drive to or to get a shuttle to. So there was always something we did have a stretch of the trail where we couldn’t ever get a store that was big enough for the quantity that we needed. And so we were just kind of like limping through buying that was actually in the White Mountains. But thankfully there were like gift shops. So we would be getting really overpriced food at these White Mountain gift shops.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (16:03)
Ugh.

Okay.

I was gonna say like some granola

bars here and there.

Laura Tolbert (16:17)
Yes, it’s like four dollar granola bars, but we just,

it’s like we had to take it. It’s food.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (16:22)
was there any like a part where like you were like the ration was a little low and you’re like, are we going to make it to the next stop?

Laura Tolbert (16:29)
that stretch in the White Mountains. They have some huts in the White Mountains that serve food. It’s really great because we could get as part of like a through-hiker kind of passport, you get a couple of, you can get baked goods or any leftover food they have from their paid people that are staying there. They will let you have, which is great. We went up to one and they have this huge vat of oatmeal that nobody at the breakfast had touched.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (16:33)
Yes, I’ve heard. Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Okay, that’s so nice. Yes.

Laura Tolbert (16:58)
And so we were starting to eat it and it was pretty clear very quickly why nobody had touched it. It tasted like somebody had spilled some kind of strange chemical in it. It was really terrible, but we were hungry so we still ate it. Yes, like, well, it’s weird, but whatever. Once it’s inside, once it’s in our body, it’s just fuel. So it’s fine.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (17:03)
Hello.

no.

Yeah.

Survival instincts kicking in.

Yeah, it’s fuel now, so just get

past the taste buds. Now, how long in total then did it take you to do the whole trail?

Laura Tolbert (17:29)
Yes.

195 March 20th to September 30th.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (17:40)
Now, how was the weather then? Like when you started, because you start in Georgia. So it’s not super cold, hopefully, in March in Georgia.

Laura Tolbert (17:45)
Yes.

It wasn’t although I think our first night on the trail was our coldest night of the whole trip It actually got in it’s slated and then sort of snow hailed and It got down into the low 20s and that that was really cold But thankfully that was the coldest night. We also had snow and we were in the smokey’s But it was not as cold. It was probably just right around 30 and then

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (17:54)
okay. ⁓

wow. Yeah, that’s cold. That’s cold.

Okay.

Laura Tolbert (18:16)
It was starting to get cold again. had a couple nights just below freezing without snow, thankfully, when we were up north in Maine also. ⁓ But overall, the weather was really great. It was my kind of personal goal. Like, OK, I just need to hike long enough to get to warm weather and then and then it’ll all be golden.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (18:33)
Hmm.

And it wasn’t like too

hot then on the trail either in the summer or did you feel?

Laura Tolbert (18:40)
Well,

it wasn’t for me. I like hot weather, but it got pretty brutally hot from June 1st to probably the end of July. was above 80 every day and above 90 a lot of days. had some days that were, the day we hiked into Harper’s Ferry, actually the heat index was like 110.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (18:43)
You like the hat?

wow.

Mm-hmm.

Ugh.

Laura Tolbert (19:02)
it was really hot. I can remember crossing the bridge over the Shenandoah River, just sweat, just pouring down because it totally exposed that bridge. Thankfully, usually we’re in the shade. So

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (19:11)
Yeah, totally.

as much as I love hiking, I hate hiking in the summer for that. Like I can’t I’m already like hot moving, you know, as soon as you start walking up a, know, especially in the Appalachian Trail, you’re walking straight up the mountain, right? ⁓ Yeah, yeah. I’m like, maybe, you know, maybe do this in the fall, winter and summer. But then of course, then it gets really cold. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Laura Tolbert (19:26)
That’s how at least half the family felt.

Yes. I mean it is, it is hard. I mean you need a lot more water. You just, it is taking a lot more out of your body.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (19:40)
Now, did you, like, as you crossed each state line, did you guys do anything to celebrate that? Or are you just like, woohoo, we did it, okay, keep moving?

Laura Tolbert (19:47)
I think it was more a thank goodness we’re in a new state.

We took a picture at most state crossings, but there were some where we actually during the day we got pretty spread out on the trail like we would be potentially miles apart on the trail from first person to last person. So there were a couple of state lines that were kind of toward the end of the day and people were just too far apart.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (20:04)
wow, yeah.

Laura Tolbert (20:12)
but there were definitely ones where we stopped and got a group photo and that was fun. it was always great to mark a new state. just, it never got old.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (20:20)
Of course, yeah, new accomplishment. Now does Virginia

feel as long to hike through as it feels to drive through?

Laura Tolbert (20:28)
It is really long. is

a quarter of the trail as in Virginia. Yes.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (20:32)
It is so long. It is a long state. People don’t realize

how long Virginia is because it swoops down like that. And then, yeah.

Laura Tolbert (20:38)
great and it’s you

know it’s not as huge as a big western state but for an eastern state it was really big and it was it was good i think for the first probably two-thirds of of virginia we all really liked it pretty well we got sick in virginia that was a little bit of a bummer and then the the final third i think we were just we were just ready for a new a new state change of scenery

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (20:41)
Yeah, it’s… it is, yeah.

You’re over it. You’re like, are we in Maryland

yet?

Laura Tolbert (21:03)
Right, it was a big relief to get to

Harper’s Ferry and then and then to cross into Maryland.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (21:08)
Did you have a favorite section of the trail? So obviously not Virginia. No, I’m kidding. Yeah.

Laura Tolbert (21:12)
I mean, Virginia’s so long. It’s hard to have it as a favorite because there’s so many great things, but then it kind of wears out its welcome.

⁓ that was not my favorite state. My favorite section was the White Mountains.

It was incredible. We had amazing weather. We had like one day of rain out of probably nine days in the White Mountains. It was just, it was amazing. ⁓

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (21:28)
need to get up there.

Laura Tolbert (21:38)
I loved almost every second of it except for that one rainy section. I mean, was really just funny.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (21:42)
That’s awesome. Yes. And the weird oatmeal.

Now,

⁓ obviously you were out for 195 days. So I’m assuming not everything went perfectly for you. You got sick in Virginia, Do you have any crazy stories you want to share? Any, you know, like weather related, equipment related, anything health related, I guess any crazy stories like anything like, my gosh, I can’t believe that happened to us.

Laura Tolbert (21:56)
Yes.

you

Well, the ⁓ the night that we got sick was probably one of the most dramatic nights for us as a group My husband tried to go help some of the other kids who were sick, but he was also feeling sick. He fainted in the woods

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (22:29)
happened? What did you get? Was it a stomach

Laura Tolbert (22:32)
a stomach virus, which is super

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (22:32)
or? Ugh.

Laura Tolbert (22:33)
common on the trail. And almost everybody gets it in Virginia. And I don’t know. I mean, it could just be because there’s so many miles in Virginia. I’m not 100 % sure. But almost everybody gets it in Virginia. And we were no different. But yeah, and I couldn’t even get up.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (22:37)
wow. ⁓

Maybe, yeah.

Wow.

Laura Tolbert (22:54)
teenage or 13 year old daughter like came in. She’s like, kids are throwing up over in the other tents. Can you come help? And I said yes, but I couldn’t get up. And I feel terrible that I couldn’t get up and help her, but I couldn’t. And I felt like I would faint. And then my husband did get up and did faint. So that felt like that was a really reasonable concern that I might faint.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (23:07)
Well, no, I mean, you you feel so weak when you have a stomach virus, you know, I mean, you you have no

Laura Tolbert (23:20)
we got out and it worked out. But we also had this hike in Pennsylvania. It was a really steep downhill. And our 13-year-old daughter, again, poor girl, she fell going downhill. And we did not really have any time. So was like, I think this might end our hike.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (23:27)
Mm-hmm.

no!

Laura Tolbert (23:41)
I didn’t see her fall so staring at my feet on this town hill but I

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (23:44)
Yeah, in Pennsylvania on the trail, yeah, you’re always looking at your feet.

Laura Tolbert (23:48)
it’s like there’s no scenery there’s just feet ⁓ but our other daughter who was hiking with her like yelled out like mom

And we looked up and she stood up and just had just blood pouring down her face. And my husband and I both just like, my goodness, is this, is this the end of her hike? Obviously we’re concerned about her too, but like, are we going to have to rush her to an emergency room? We’re on the middle of a trail. What do we even do?

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (24:00)
my goodness.

Yes, yeah.

Yeah.

Laura Tolbert (24:17)
And we went up there, like, you know, ran as well as we could on this terrain on the trail. And it just got this blood just pouring down. I poured water on it to like kind of wipe it away and just see what we were dealing with. I couldn’t even find the cut. It was so small. So I was like, well, I guess you’re fine.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (24:27)
Mm-hmm.

So small. Yeah, but heads bleed, man. They really can bleed.

Like no stitches needed.

Laura Tolbert (24:43)
Right? was just nothing. then like this rock that she had landed on had this like pool of blood on it. It was really, it was kind of disturbing.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (24:50)
How’s she feeling now?

Laura Tolbert (24:52)
actually were staying in a hotel that night, which was good. Even though it didn’t end up being a serious injury, it was nice to just get off the trail and just kind of reset emotionally and sleep in a real bed and make sure that she was okay and didn’t have like a concussion or something that we just couldn’t see at the time. And thankfully she was okay.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (24:55)
Good timing.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Aw, poor thing. I feel bad it was in Pennsylvania too, but yes, we’re Roxylvania for a reason. It’s very treacherous out there.

Laura Tolbert (25:19)
Yes. Yes.

And she just, she ended up being, she always had stuff happening to her. Poor girl.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (25:24)
⁓

Poor girl.

you know, what doesn’t kill ya makes you stronger, right? So she’ll only be better off for it all. And she’ll probably also never let you live it down. She’ll be like, remember when you made me do the Appalachia Trail?

Laura Tolbert (25:35)
That’s right. Yes, and she loves dramatic stories and she’s got several. Never going hiking again. Remember the last time.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (25:50)
on social media, one of the things I loved seeing that you post about was the trail angels. And I know, you know, that’s the thing. can you just explain trail angels and what they, you know, some of the things that they did for you?

Laura Tolbert (25:57)
yes.

Yeah.

Yes, trail angels are anybody that helps hikers on the trail in any way large or small. it could be sometimes it was, you know, big groups of people serving hot dogs and burgers on a grill like right trailside, which is really, really always amazing.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (26:16)
I love that.

That

is so cool, I love that.

Laura Tolbert (26:23)
Yeah,

that was just like the best feeling in the world when you are finishing and you’re getting to a trailhead and you see a tent set up and you know somebody’s there cooking and you don’t have eat a hydrate of mashed potatoes. But it could be something much smaller. ⁓

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (26:30)
Yeah.

Laura Tolbert (26:38)
We had people who just would leave coolers at a trailhead with cold drinks in them and that is something a trail angel would do, shuttling you to town. We had some people’s random strangers on the internet send us money, which was really generous. ⁓ And we had…

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (26:44)
That’s nice.

That’s really cool.

Laura Tolbert (26:56)
people that would bring us to their, a couple people brought us to their house and let us stay at their house, which was really amazing. I will say Pennsylvania, even though the trail was kind of a bummer in a lot of places, the trail angels in Pennsylvania were amazing.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (27:03)
wow. I mean.

That’s good to know. like, maybe that’s something, you know, when when life slows down a little bit, maybe I’ll be a trail angel because even though I’m I am never going to through hike the Appalachian Trail, but I think it would be fun to be a trail angel. I think that’d be really cool. Sign up for that. Yeah.

Laura Tolbert (27:21)
Yeah, I mean it’s really…

Yeah, my kids are really excited at the idea of going back and

it’s a fun way to be a part of the community. mean, one of the best things about the Appalachian Trail is the community aspect. And that’s actually one thing that kind of sets the Appalachian Trail apart from the Western Long Trails, which just tend to be a little more remote. There are so many population centers close to the Appalachian Trail and the community aspect is just really strong.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (27:34)
Yeah!

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

did you meet any other families also through hiking on the trail? Did you meet any other young kids like as kids as young as yours

Laura Tolbert (28:02)
No, not any young kids through hiking. We did meet another family that that has seven kids that was hiking with five, but their youngest was 17. So they were mostly hiking with a group of adults. We met a few people out for a weekend or a day hike with their kids.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (28:06)
Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Okay. Adults. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Laura Tolbert (28:26)
but no other thru-hikers with small children. I do know there was one other thru-hiking family with small children, but we did not cross paths with them on the trail. They started before us and finished before us. ⁓ And we’d actually met them prior to the trail, so I knew they were going to be out there, but we just, our schedules did not align.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (28:35)
Gotcha.

Okay.

No.

How about ⁓ meeting up with friends and family on the trail? Because I know you had posted that you got to hike a few times with family, with friends. How did you coordinate that? That I guess it worked out, right?

Laura Tolbert (28:52)
this.

Yes, it did. And I’m really thankful that the people who came to visit us would kind of tell us when they wanted to come, but were really

on where, which was really, really helpful. I mean, you kind of either have to be super flexible on when or where, because we didn’t know exactly when we’d be places. And we would even let them know like five days before they’d say, Oh, I want to come out and visit you in the beginning of July. Where will you be? And like, well, I’ll let you know at the end of June.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (29:12)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, because you don’t know exactly. Yeah, yeah.

Laura Tolbert (29:27)
where we’ll be in five days and you can come there and they did and that was really a huge morale boost to have friends come out for the kids

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (29:28)
Yeah.

Yes.

Laura Tolbert (29:39)
they just

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (29:40)
Now would they day hike

with you or would they stay overnight with you

Laura Tolbert (29:43)
It kind of depended on the situation. Like my husband’s sister, her family wanted to backpack with us. So we ⁓ were able to work that out so that they could backpack with us for a couple of days. But my sister came out and she has even younger kids and they’re not really into backpacking. So they wanted to kind of coordinate when we were taking a day off of the trail. ⁓

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (29:51)
Okay.

Okay.

⁓

Laura Tolbert (30:09)
So that was

kind of like we would sort of try to plan around what they were hoping to be able to do, but they were all super flexible. It’s like, if it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work. But we really, we wanted to make it work. And, and it really did. ⁓ It did probably slow us down a tiny bit, but that’s definitely worth it to have to have people come out with it. Yes.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (30:21)
What the?

No, definitely. Yeah, like you said, like for the morale boost, you know, and just

to get a, you know, a hug from somebody that’s not one of the nine that you’re with, right? Like, hey, somebody new to talk to.

Laura Tolbert (30:39)
Yeah. Yeah. Right. It really,

I mean, every time I saw somebody from home, it was like immediately like tears in my eyes. It just, you, when you’re out there on the trail, you’re not really thinking about how much you’re missing those people. But then when they’re right there, it just, it really meant a lot to have people come out and, be willing to give up their time to just.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (30:52)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Laura Tolbert (31:09)
be wherever we were, which is just so thoughtful.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (31:11)
I think that’s awesome that, that

yeah, that they were able to do that with you and for you. I’m sure there, there were some things that you didn’t like about being on the trail. Do you want to share a few of those?

Laura Tolbert (31:24)
Yes, I mean, I don’t like having to to the bathroom in the woods. No, I mean, you get used to it and it’s fine, but you know, I did not like that. Days where it was rainy were definitely hard. And if it rained for part of the day and we had a chance to dry off before we set up camp.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (31:28)
No, neither do I. No, I don’t even like using latrines, you know, the… No. I’m such a princess about that, but you know, yeah.

Yeah.

Laura Tolbert (31:47)
then that was okay. But there were some days where it just, it just rained all day. And then the next day, if it was wet again or humid, like you’re just still, everything is just real wet. And, and those days are hard. Um, one of the hardest parts, and I almost feel bad saying that this is hard, but hiking behind my seven year old, it just, it is, and you know, if the trail was boring,

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (31:51)
Mm, yeah.

You’re just wet. Yeah.

No, I understand. Because they’re a little slow and you’re like, just pick up the pace.

Laura Tolbert (32:16)
then he would like start messing with leaves and go even slower. He loved it if the trail was exciting and fun, but most of the trail is just, you know, it’s putting one foot in front of the other. It’s not always going to be exciting. And hiking behind him on days when he was bored and then boredom translated into tiredness, then he was just like, that was really painful. And I would think, how am I going to hike? ⁓

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (32:29)
Yep. Yeah. Yeah.

Laura Tolbert (32:45)
this one mile an hour for the next 11 hours. But I mean, well, we made it every day. Every day we made it. And my oldest son was just an absolute miracle worker with my youngest son.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (32:52)
You did it.

Laura Tolbert (33:01)
remember one day my youngest son was like hiking really slow and he didn’t he wasn’t feeling motivated and I was just like I can’t think of I couldn’t think of any consequence like it couldn’t

ground him. couldn’t take away screen time because we’re just out on the trail. And then my son, the oldest, my oldest son, he came up with this game, like earning points for different, like greeting other hikers on the trail or like, it didn’t even cross my mind to give him like a positive motivation. I was just like down in the dumps thinking about how depressing it was to go this slow. And my 15 year old son is out making this game and

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (33:13)
No. Yeah.

Brilliant!

I love that.

Yeah.

Laura Tolbert (33:42)
It was really humbling to have a ⁓ teenage boy be so much better at parenting in that moment than I was.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (33:50)
but he also is a young boy. He knows what would entertain him, would, you know, keep him moving. So maybe he was actually doing the game in his head at the time.

Laura Tolbert (33:54)
Yes. Yes.

I think

it was partly for his own sake, which was wonderful. it was really awesome to see, the ways that the kids work together and the ways that they recognize things about their other siblings and sometimes did use those to poke at. But also.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (34:15)
Yeah. ⁓

Laura Tolbert (34:20)
We couldn’t, like there’s a saying, like, if you want to go fast, go alone, but if you want to go far, go together. that, that was us. I mean, we, we could not have done it just as individuals.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (34:31)
do you have another trip planned or are done? Is this the last, the first and last big family backpacking trip?

Laura Tolbert (34:39)
I think it probably will be the only one that we do as a whole family just because our oldest daughter, she’s 18 now and she’s probably going to be moving on to college and then it’s just going to be kind of one after the other. So this was kind of the perfect window to hit to do the one. ⁓

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (34:44)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Laura Tolbert (34:55)
I probably for three quarters or even fourth bits of the trail, I would have said, I don’t want to do a trail this long again. But by the end, I think I would do a trail this long again. So it’s easy to say now, but even the last couple of weeks, I was thinking, you know what? actually, I would do this again. And I think getting to the end of it and realizing we could do this.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (35:03)
Mm-hmm.

Now that you’re off the trail.

I mean, that’s an accomplishment.

Laura Tolbert (35:25)
it does make

you feel like, if I could do it once, I could do it again and I would enjoy it. I don’t know. I think it would be more like a, which kids of you want to come rather than this is something we’re definitely all doing as a family. And I think some would go and some wouldn’t. So we’ll probably have to wait a few years for us to save up some more money

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (35:37)
Yeah. Making.

Yeah, that’s awesome though.

Laura Tolbert (35:49)
But I think we’d be open to doing another one if the circumstances come together.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (35:54)
don’t know if I’d ever do the whole Appalachian Trail, but I think it would be fun to try backpacking, you know, a section, you know, a state, maybe not Virginia.

Laura Tolbert (36:01)
Yeah. Well, and the Appalachian Trail definitely don’t commit to all of Virginia if you’re only wanting

to do a short distance. West Virginia is only four miles. You could do a whole state. Probably have. But yeah, I mean, Appalachian Trail is kind of just like a long weekend backpacking trip over and over and over. So once you have done a weekend or two,

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (36:11)
I know, yeah, West Virginia. I think I’ve done the Appalachian Trail in West Virginia technically, so. But that’s awesome.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Laura Tolbert (36:31)
You could do the whole thing.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (36:31)
Just keep going. It’s like, what do

they say? It’s like eating an elephant, right? You can eat an elephant, you just one bite at a time, right? My second to last question, I guess, ⁓ trail traditions. I’m sure there’s a lot of trail traditions on the Appalachian Trail. Did you get to partake in any of them?

Laura Tolbert (36:35)
Yes, going by the time.

Hmm.

Well, we skipped hike naked day. ⁓

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (36:52)
I think I skipped that too. Did you encounter anybody? No. Gotcha.

Laura Tolbert (36:55)
And thankfully didn’t see anybody participating. I think that’s the summer solstice is hike naked

day, which is like the most daylight. I guess you want to be seen the longest. It kind of sounds horrible anyway, like you’re wearing a backpack.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (37:09)
You wanna get sunburned?

Yeah,

I don’t like when my backpack, like if I’m wearing a tank top and my backpack’s rubbing on my skin, I hate that. Yeah, no.

Laura Tolbert (37:16)
Right, it’s like rubbing your shoulders. It seems

terrible. We didn’t do that one. We did participate. There’s a trail tradition of getting a trail name. so we all eventually got a trail name and we went as a group by the ⁓ fellowship, which we is like after Lord of the Rings, because there’s nine members of the Fellowship of the Ring. And we’re kind of thinking like.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (37:25)
Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Laura Tolbert (37:41)
what if all nine members of the fellowship had just stayed together instead of splitting up? And so that was kind of our vision is the fellowship that stays together. Mine was blue skies, ⁓ got named that by the kids, ⁓ sort of making fun of me for always like pointing out if the sky was blue and just like.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (37:53)
I like that. What was your trail name?

Hmm ⁓

Laura Tolbert (38:07)
no matter what terrible conditions the weather had been 20 minutes before, like, there’s blue skies. ⁓ But I like it too, because I think it was, they were trying to point out that they appreciated my positive attitude.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (38:20)
was gonna say

that it sounds like a very optimistic name, know, like your, yeah, your positive attitude. I like that. The half glass fool kind of name. I do that too when we’re hiking. Well, not so much like pointing out the blue skies, whatever, but I’m always pointing out like, look at that. That’s so pretty. Look how nice that is.

Laura Tolbert (38:24)
Yes.

Yeah.

I mean, there’s so

many beautiful things out there. And one of the things that really just struck me multiple times on the trail is all of these things out, these things in nature are so beautiful, whether we’re there or not. they’re just, they are beautiful for the sake of beauty. Like they just, and I love that. And then the fact that we got to be there to see them was just, I mean, it was a gift. was, it was truly a gift. And I’m-

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (38:53)
I know, yeah. They’re just there. They’re not there for us, they’re just there. Yeah.

Laura Tolbert (39:09)
Really thankful.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (39:10)
I’m like I said earlier, I’m like so excited that you got to do this. Like I’ve been following along with this planning of yours for the last couple of years. So I’m I’m grateful that you got to do this because I got to follow along and live vicariously through you. Now I don’t have to do it. All right. So before I let you go, I’ve been asking everybody this question.

Laura Tolbert (39:16)
Thank

⁓ thank you. Now you don’t have to go.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (39:35)
And this might be tough because you’ve had a lot of views along the way, but if you could only do one kind of hike for the rest of your life, would you choose to hike to a view, an overlook, or would you choose to hike to a waterfall?

Laura Tolbert (39:52)
⁓ I would choose a view. We had very few waterfalls on the trail, feel like, because it was so dry for the second half of the hike, which was actually nice for hiking, to have so little rain. But a lot of the waterfalls that had been advertised were more like a water trickle. ⁓ But some of them are really, really beautiful. I love Niagara Falls. I do love a great waterfall. ⁓

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (39:57)
Yeah, there’s that many on the trail, yeah.

Yes.

We’re non-existent.

Yeah.

Laura Tolbert (40:22)
but I would choose a view. There were some views on the trail. We’d just be hiking along, looking at your feet, and then just look up. And I couldn’t even help just like laughter, just bubbling up and just how beautiful and incredible what we were seeing was. So yes, I would choose a view.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (40:39)
Mm-hmm.

like it. There’s no wrong answer as far as I’m concerned. I think, yeah. All right, so obviously I keep mentioning your social media and that I’ve been following it along. So I want you to share, if anyone wants to see, because you have a YouTube as well. So if anyone wants to look back on your social media, see what you guys are up to, look at your YouTube videos, can you share where they can find all of that?

Laura Tolbert (40:46)
I mean, you really can’t go wrong with

yes.

Yes, is Tolbert’s, Tolbert’s Take the Trail. T-O-L-B-E-R-T-S. I always am like, am I spelling my own name right? ⁓ Tolbert’s Take the Trail. And ⁓ yes, the YouTube videos are very unprofessional. But I had a lot of fun taking video and preserving memories. ⁓

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (41:13)
You’re like…

Doesn’t matter.

Laura Tolbert (41:30)
And then ⁓ Instagram, we actually, my husband and I did this together. We made little short clip reels of sections on the trail and then set them to music. And I really love how they are. And a lot of them are on YouTube, but some of them I couldn’t download because of music copyright issues. So, but those are all on Instagram. And those are, I think, fun. And the kids enjoyed watching them all on our drive home. Yes.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (41:37)
Okay, yep.

good memories, can

look back on them and that’s your scrapbook. That’s what my husband says about Instagram. He’s like, it’s my scrapbook.

Laura Tolbert (42:01)
Right, it really is. Yes, I know.

It saves a lot of time, just picture and it’s just there.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (42:08)
It does.

you’re on YouTube, you’re on Instagram, and do you have a website or

Laura Tolbert (42:14)
I guess I do have a blog. It’s also, it’s toldbertstakethetrail.wordpress.com. I’m three weeks behind, so hopefully when this episode airs, it will actually be done. But if not, we’re still stuck in New Hampshire.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (42:20)
Welcome.

You have a couple months. Well, Laura,

I am so grateful for you to take the time and share your experience about hiking with a large family on the Appalachian Trail. ⁓ I’m so glad you did it, like I said, because I could live vicariously through you. It was so fun keeping track, you know, and you’re you’re and you’re on threads too, because I loved all your trail micro miracle posts, like all of that.

Laura Tolbert (42:38)
you

yes, yeah.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (42:55)
And I just appreciate you taking the time to share all this with me. So thanks for being here.

Laura Tolbert (42:58)
Well, thanks for having me

on. It’s been really fun to talk with you about it.

Hiking in Europe Vs The States: Lindsey Bybee Shares Her Experience

Lauren Stites — Tue, 06 Jan 2026 11:36:37 +0000

APPLE | SPOTIFY | YOUTUBE

Living and Hiking in Europe

What’s it like to live and hike in Europe compared the United States? After living in multiple countries, including Germany, Ukraine, and now Turkey, Lindsey Bybee shares what it’s like to be on the trail and how it’s different from “home”.

Lindsey also shares some of her favorite trails in the countries she’s lived in and traveled to, as well as some bucket list places. This was a fun interview to start Season 2 of the podcast!

What We Talk About This Episode

[00:01:54] Living in Different Countries: Lindsey talks about the various countries she’s lived in with her family

[00:02:29] Getting Back Into Hiking: Lindsey shares why she started hiking as adult with her family

[00:04:25] Hiking With Kids: Lindsey discusses how she began hiking with her kids and what motivates them to get out on the trails

[00:8:14] Differences Between Hiking in Europe vs the US: Lindsey explains some of the difference she’s observed about hiking in Europe compared to the US

[00:10:31] Favorite Trails: Lindsey shares some of her favorite hiking trails including some good ones for kids

[00:13:48] Hikes Gone Wrong: Lindsey gets a laugh talking about mishaps on the trails

[00:17:11] Bucket List Hikes: Lindsey talks about some of the places she’s love to hike around the world

Lindsey (00:00)
One thing I’ve heard a lot of my friends say that have more hiking experience in the States is we are spoiled in Europe with like the established restaurants along the trail. Like you will go hiking up a trail and there will be a full on restaurant serving you hot food, cold drinks, ice cream.

I feel like it makes it less daunting to think about, I’m going to go out hiking all day I know there’s going to be a restaurant up there, so I just make sure to have some cash on me. I can get everybody an ice cream and we can sit down and take a break, have some spaghetti, whatever. Like that part is really, really nice.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (00:42)
Hello and welcome to season two of Her Side of the Trail. Whether you’re a new listener or you’re coming here from season one, I really appreciate your support. It means everything.

Now, let’s talk about this episode. I am speaking with Lindsay Bybee. She is an American citizen who currently lives in Turkey, but she has lived in other countries in Europe, including Georgia, Ukraine and Germany. I wanted to talk to her about the differences and similarities between hiking here in the States versus overseas. And some of them are pretty distinct.

And some things I wish we could bring over here to the States. There’s a few things over in Europe I would love to have here in the States, so we’ll get into that. Lindsay has been getting out on the trail with her three kids, but also, you know, doing like some girlfriend trips. So you’ll hear all about that on this episode. And so if you’re planning a trip overseas or you’re just curious in general what it’s like to hike in Europe, this is the episode for you. So let’s get into it.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (01:41)
hello, Lindsay. Thank you for joining me today to talk about hiking abroad because you are the Abroad Wife So I’m so excited to talk to you about hiking overseas.

Lindsey (01:49)
Thanks for having me. I’m excited to be here.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (01:51)
you are the abroad wife on Instagram. So to me, that means you’ve lived in many different countries. Even since I’ve been following you, you’ve lived in a couple of different countries. How many countries have you lived in and where do you live now?

Lindsey (01:54)
Yes. Yes.

Yeah.

So I think we’re at five countries now, including the United States. We’ve lived in Germany, Georgia, Ukraine, and then Germany a second time, but now we live in Turkey.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (02:19)
A lot of differences between those countries,

Lindsey (02:19)
Yeah, for sure.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (02:23)
I have you on here because you’re a hiker, you’re out with the kids hiking. Is that something that you did growing up as a child?

Lindsey (02:29)
Yeah, so actually my family did like to hike. ⁓ When I was a kid, they did take us out hiking and I remember not enjoying it. That’s kind of like my childhood association with hiking. I wasn’t super into it, but we did it. And then I had a long break before I kind of got back into hiking. I was actually telling my husband today, like if somebody had told me five years ago, I was going to be

interviewed for a hiking podcast, I would have like laughed in their face because it wasn’t really something I got into until we moved to Garmisch, Germany. ⁓ And for people who don’t know, that’s like in the German Alps. You’re right at the base of mountains. So once we moved there, that’s kind of what ⁓ got me connected with hiking again. And now I really enjoy it.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (03:04)
Okay.

almost like a requirement living there that you go hiking, right? ⁓

Lindsey (03:19)
Yeah, I mean

if you don’t you’ll be kind of bored because everything that there is to do there revolves around being outside, hiking ⁓ and being in the outdoors.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (03:24)
you

I love places like that. It’s like almost like my my in-laws, they live in Colorado they went they went out there and they’re like, OK, we’re hikers now.

Lindsey (03:38)
Yeah, yeah,

was worried that I wouldn’t enjoy Garmish very much. People told me that I would love it, but at the time I didn’t feel outdoorsy enough to like really enjoy it. But once I got there and just kind of got going and got into it, I mean, I fell in love.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (03:42)
Mm-hmm.

I think there’s this like persona that people feel like they have to like have to be like an outdoorsy person. And meanwhile, I’m like, no, just strap on some shoes and go outside. You’re an outdoorsy person.

Lindsey (04:02)
Yeah.

Yes, yes, I agree with

that. It kind of has, it feels a little bit intimidating at first, like, oh, you know, I’m not as hardcore as all these people, but you really don’t have to be. just about like being outside and enjoying yourself.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (04:21)
Yeah,

definitely, definitely. Well, I’m glad you figured that out when you were living there, because now you’ve been doing all these crazy hikes with the kids. you have been hiking with the kids. Now, how many children do you have? OK.

Lindsey (04:25)
Thanks. Me too.

Yeah. We have three children and

they’re now 12, 10, and 6. And when we first moved to Garmage, which is when we really got into hiking, they were 2, 6, and 8.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (04:39)
Okay.

Okay,

so you got them out on the trails right away. What else? Yeah.

Lindsey (04:49)
Yeah, I mean, we didn’t really have another option. mean, we

didn’t live near family, so it wasn’t like we could call, you know, somebody to watch the kids for us while we went out. So it was like, well, if we want to do it, we have to get them to do it too. So we drug them around with us.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (05:03)
Did you have the little one in like a carrier or did they handle the trails on their own?

Lindsey (05:08)
No, we

never got a carrier. That’s just one thing that we always kind of, by the time we thought like, should we get one of those? We were kind of on the edge of like needing it. He was already two and a half and happy to walk a bit. So we’re like, do we really want to invest in one of these backpacks? And so we were like, nah, we don’t need that. So he walked ⁓ a lot of the ways and we would do easy stuff. And then if we did something that got

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (05:22)
Yeah.

Lindsey (05:36)
A little bit too long for him, my husband would throw him up on his shoulders and that’s how we managed.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (05:39)
Yeah, throw them up on their shoulders.

That’s a good way to do it though. I know my son at two and a half would not sit in a carrier. There’s no way.

Lindsey (05:48)
Yeah,

it’s kind of dependent, right? Like if your kid likes it, great, but if they’re too antsy or want to be out and free, sometimes that’s better.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (05:50)
Yeah.

I’m like my daughter who is 12 now, I think would still be in a carrier if we could put her in. She’d be like, wait, wait, get me on your back. Let’s do this. ⁓

Lindsey (06:01)
Yeah, probably mine too. Yeah, my daughter is

definitely our most reluctant hiker, so she would probably take that option too.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (06:11)
That kind of drives me to the next

question though. So challenges, we all have challenges getting the kids out hiking. Have you faced any certain challenges with that?

Lindsey (06:21)
Yeah. yeah. I mean,

probably what most parents face, you know, they don’t want to go. It’s boring. They rather play with their friends or whatever. ⁓ I mean, yeah, they’ve, they’ve told us all those things and you know, they’re not always like, woohoo, we get to go hiking today. ⁓ a lot of times it takes a lot more coaxing or, ⁓ motivation as I like to say slash bribery. ⁓ but.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (06:40)
Yeah. ⁓

Yeah, I was gonna say food snacks, right?

Lindsey (06:50)
Gummy bears work really well. ⁓ But

yeah, mean, we just kind of, you know, we don’t, try not to let that stop us in our tracks because we know it’s good for them. It’s good for us. Once you get out there, most of the time they are fine.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (07:00)
Yeah.

I always feel like I get the resistance before we leave. And then once we’re out on the trail, then they kind of start to relax and then, and then they enjoy it. Yeah. Especially when they can see all the fun things along the way, all the different animals and plants and views and stuff and rocks, you know, if we can climb rocks, we’re good to go.

Lindsey (07:08)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah, be mellow into it and keep going.

Yeah.

For sure. Rocks and sticks. Somehow still

very entertaining.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (07:30)
So have you hiked in every country that you’ve lived in then? Or you said you grew up hiking in the US a little bit against your will. Yes.

Lindsey (07:35)
Well, yeah, so yeah, against my will, just like my kids, know, it comes full circle. ⁓ In

Ukraine, we really didn’t do any hiking. We lived in the capital city and my kids were like, I just had two, but they were little at that time and it was kind of like survival. So we weren’t really doing hiking then. ⁓ My husband and I did a little, like a few hikes in Georgia. ⁓

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (07:53)
Gotcha.

Lindsey (08:04)
And then of course, when we lived in Germany, we traveled around, you know, the Alps and did a lot of hiking in different countries around there. And we’re trying to find some things here in Turkey too.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (08:14)
have you noticed any big differences between hiking overseas versus hiking in the US? Like I always feel like we’re very, you know, because we’re very litigious society. So we have a lot of like safety things in place. But I just wasn’t sure if you noticed the difference or is it pretty similar no matter what?

Lindsey (08:25)
yes.

Yeah. ⁓

To be honest, my hiking experience in the States is pretty limited. What I’ll say about hiking in places like Germany, Austria, Switzerland, ⁓ the trails are extremely well maintained. There’s signs everywhere saying, this point, how long it’s gonna probably take you to walk one hour, two hours. ⁓ There’s gondolas everywhere. So a lot of times you can, yeah, either.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (08:49)
Okay.

that’s nice, yeah.

Even better. Yeah.

Lindsey (09:03)
hike up and gondola down or

the opposite, take the gondola up and then start hiking from there.

One thing I’ve heard a lot of my friends say that have more hiking experience in the States is definitely we are spoiled in Europe with like the established restaurants along the trail. Like you will go hiking up a trail and there will be a full on restaurant serving you hot food, cold drinks, ice cream. There’s oftentimes playgrounds. It’s so nice because

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (09:28)
That is incredible.

Lindsey (09:33)
I feel like it makes it less daunting to think about, I’m going to go out hiking all day and I have to pack snacks for five people to last us that whole time when I know, right. It’s like, well, I know there’s going to be a restaurant up there, so I just make sure to have some cash on me. I can get everybody an ice cream and we can sit down and take a break, have some spaghetti, whatever. Like that part is really, really nice.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (09:41)
Make sure you have enough water. Yeah.

That

is so incredible. think it’s in New Hampshire, but I believe there is like on one of the trails in New Hampshire, there’s like a soup hut. Like you can go up and you can get some hot soup, which I’m like, that’s a dream. Thank you.

Lindsey (10:06)
yeah.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (10:09)
So no, think,

Lindsey (10:10)
so from what I can

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (10:13)
no, no, I think that needs to be, yeah, I think that it’s a missed business opportunity here in the States for sure.

Lindsey (10:11)
that’s not as much a thing in the States. You know, I don’t really remember seeing that. It should be a thing, right? It’s so great. For real. Yeah, people would

make a lot of money. People are definitely willing to give you money for hot food and cold drinks at the end of a hike. Yeah.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (10:26)
Yeah, I love that. Yeah, that needs

to be something that we need to establish here. So that’s a really big difference, though. Now, do you this is going to be difficult question, I feel like, because everyone has favorites. as you’ve been hiking, you know, in these various countries, do you have like any favorite trails that if someone was going like to that specific area of like, you have to do this?

Lindsey (10:31)
Yeah, yeah,

Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, I definitely have a few favorites. It is hard to pick favorites, but in nearby Garmisch, there’s a town just over the border in Austria called Erwald. And Erwald has a couple of our like most favorite hikes. There’s one that’s great for families that we did several times with the kids. And it’s a waterfall hike, but along the trail are different like activities.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (11:10)
Ooh.

Lindsey (11:14)
that the kids have to do to find numbers at each station. And it makes like a special code. And when you get the code, you can take it to the tourist office and they’ll give the kids a little pin. So it’s very fun to have like little activities or games to do along the way. That’s also helps the hiking motivation for the kids. So that’s, that was one of our favorites for sure. And then also their, ⁓

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (11:17)
That’s fun, I love that.

That’s cool.

Mm-hmm.

Definitely.

Lindsey (11:39)
One of my favorites at the top of that mountain near that waterfall hike is ⁓ a hike where you go to two lakes, the Sabin Sey and then you can go up a little bit farther to another lake called the Dracon Sey. And it’s just, I mean, beautiful, pristine alpine lakes. It’s just stunning. So ⁓ those are definitely a couple of my favorites. There’s a few gorge hikes in Garmisch. ⁓ The Holenthal Clam is amazing.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (11:51)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsey (12:08)
Especially if you can go like in the spring after when the snow is kind of melting because then the rivers really rushing through there. It’s very impressive. One of our favorite hikes we did in Switzerland was from Männlichen to the Kleine Scheidegg. Hopefully I’m saying that close, but sometimes people know Männlichen for this playground because it has a huge cow a huge cow slide.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (12:15)
Yeah.

Okay.

Lindsey (12:36)
But there’s an amazing playground there for the kids. And then you hike along this trail to another train spot. And the views up there are stunning. And the cows with the bells, like it’s just, you know, it’s like that postcard experience of the Alps.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (12:52)
like it’s like

nothing screams Alps like walking along the hills and seeing cows I love that

Lindsey (12:55)
Yeah. And that’s very common.

It’s funny. Like that is really like a thing. ⁓ you know, my kids know, I love the cows. I love the cowbells. Like I love seeing them out there.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (13:06)
spoke with ⁓ two women who live in England and we were just talking about, dangerous animals, when you’re on the trail and she and they were saying like the most dangerous animals on the trail for them were the cows because they could stampede at you.

Lindsey (13:13)
Hmm.

Yeah, it’s true. They can.

I mean, it is a real thing. I think I heard stories, you know, once a year of a hiker getting trampled by a cow. But a lot of times it’s because there’s like a dog involved, like an off leash dog who then spooks the cow. So that’s not a good idea to have your dog off the leash nearby the cows. But for the most part, I think it’s pretty safe. But yeah, I mean, they’re a huge animal. So you have to be a little careful. Yeah.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (13:33)
Gotcha.

Yeah.

Yeah, you got to watch that. I thought that was like kind

of funny, though. I was like, yeah, we have like bears and mountain lions, but you got your cows. OK. everyone has like a this this hike went wrong story. And I know you shared at least one on your social media, but I wasn’t sure if you had any like fun, like that went very wrong hiking stories.

Lindsey (13:48)
No, there’s none of that, just cows, maybe a wayward goat.

I wonder.

The only one I can think of and I have shared it on social media so I’m wondering if it’s the same one. It’s this hike that we did with our friends in Georgia. We did it with no kids and ⁓ we were like walking up like the side of a river and the river was kind of high and we were like, ⁓ don’t want to.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (14:10)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Lindsey (14:30)
walk through there and get our feet all wet and our socks all wet. Like let’s go off the trail a little bit this way and then we’ll just like connect back with the path like another way. Well, we that didn’t work very well and we ended up getting ourselves kind of like cornered into this spot where we had to traverse a log that was like over the river. But it was like too high and too scary to just like walk across it. So we all were like

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (14:45)
You

Lindsey (14:59)
sitting down on the log and like scooting our butts across to try and forage our way across the river. So that was like the one that sticks out in my head. I don’t know if that’s the same one that you’re thinking of.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (15:10)
Yeah, I I saw that video the video

of you guys like straddling the log and trying to like maneuver yourself across I was cracking up I was like she needs to tell this story because yeah, we’ve we’ve all been there. We’ve all like oh wait. I don’t want to go this way Let me Yeah, yeah, of course

Lindsey (15:16)
Yes. Yeah. ⁓ yeah.

Yeah, it like, seemed like a good idea at the time. Like, surely we don’t, you know, and we ended up getting wet anyway, because further down we had to cross

the water. So it was a fool’s errand, that one. But very funny and very glad we had our phones ready for each other.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (15:41)
Yeah, and at least

it wasn’t, you know, anything that like put you in like imminent danger or anything, so…

Lindsey (15:45)
No, no, no. Thankfully

I haven’t had anything crazy like that. ⁓ there was one other hike with my husband in Switzerland a long time ago when we just had our daughter, she was like three months old. ⁓ and we took the cable car up, I think it was Mount Pilatus and then we decided to hike down, but we didn’t like really know where we were going. And I think we got off the trail that we intended to be on.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (15:58)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsey (16:15)
And so, you know, I’m thinking like, okay, it’s getting late. This is taking longer than it was supposed to. We don’t exactly know where we are. We’re going to be like those dumb Americans who like got stranded on the mountain with a baby. Like it wasn’t that bad. We made it down and just had to like, luckily things are so well connected there that we made it down to the wrong place. Not where we parked, but we just hop on the train to take us to the parking lot where we did park. So it turned out okay, but.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (16:21)
Yeah.

…

Oh, that’s good.

Lindsey (16:44)
I was very frustrated in that hike down. Like, why did we do this?

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (16:46)
Yes, and. And also like more scary because you do you have a young child with you. I always feel like that like amplifies it, you know, it’s just you. You’re like, OK, like I’ll make it through. But you’re like, hold on, I have a child with me. I would make sure they survive. We all have those moments, though we do. We definitely have them.

Lindsey (16:53)
Yeah, it was like.

Right.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Not our finest moment, but we made it.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (17:10)
do you have like any bucket list trails right now going on that you have like, I want to go here this weekend or take a trip here or because you can get around Europe, Eastern Europe pretty easily, correct?

Lindsey (17:11)
Yeah.

Well…

Yeah,

I mean, Europe is very well connected, very easy to get around here. We’re a bit more remote and ⁓ I live in Ankara ⁓ and so we can get around Turkey very easily, but getting out of Turkey, a lot of times we have to fly through Istanbul and it’s not quite as easy. ⁓ Cappadocia has some really nice hiking ⁓ here and we’ve done a little bit of that, but I was thinking like…

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (17:27)
Okay.

Gotcha. Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Lindsey (17:47)
It would be fun to do something totally different, like some tropical hiking in Hawaii or like to a volcano or something like that, because that’s really different than ⁓ what we’ve been doing. But there’s a few via ferrata that I would like to do in Europe. ⁓ There’s one in Murin, which is kind of in the same area as the Manlykin hike I was talking about earlier, but it looks really cool. ⁓ there’s a lot of

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (17:51)
yeah.

⁓ yes.

Lindsey (18:14)
via ferrata trails in the Dolomites and you can do like hut to hut so where it’s like multi-day and you stay the night I think that would be really fun.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (18:23)
Now is that something you think you could do with the kids or would that be like an adults only kind of trip?

Lindsey (18:27)
Yes,

I think you could do it with the kids. I don’t know if my youngest one is there yet. I just don’t know if he has like the stamina for that. They’ve all tried via ferrata. so I also worked for a nonprofit ⁓ and we have camps in the summer for Ukrainian military families who’ve been like affected by the war. So we bring them out to the Austrian Alps and we do like a week of healing.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (18:35)
Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Lindsey (18:54)
through a combination of mountain climbing and psychoeducational modules. It’s amazing, it’s amazing. And this summer, my family actually got to come with me and participate. So there’s Via Ferrata routes that we do on that. And so they’ve all been able to try it and they did well with it. My little one got a little scared on this one that we did, because it’s very dramatic. There’s a Via Ferrata across the face of a dam. And it’s not hard physically, but it’s

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (18:57)
That’s a nice program.

Okay? I was gonna say… Yeah.

Okay.

Lindsey (19:24)
looks very intimidating. Yes, yes. ⁓ So I think my kids need to do just like a bit more practice before they did something like that, but I totally think they could do it.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (19:25)
Like mentally, it’s like a little like intimidating, yeah.

Gotcha.

Yeah, we have in West Virginia, there’s a VF or out of there and I have my eye on it and I was actually very close to it this over the Memorial Day weekend and I thought I could maybe bring the kids, but they have an age minimum of 13 and my daughter was 12. So I was like, well, maybe next summer. I’m like looking at videos of it and my husband’s like, you think she’s going to do that? I’m like, I don’t know, maybe.

Lindsey (19:42)
I’ve seen that, yeah.

Yeah.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (20:05)
I’m like, she’s more capable than we think.

Lindsey (20:05)
But that’s

very true. like the same thing I was saying about the hiking, like when I lived in Garmisch, I was too afraid to try Via Ferrata. I was scared of heights. My friend tried to get me to go and I’m like, Sarah, you don’t know me very well then because I’m terrified. I’m never going to do that. But then I started working with this foundation, Mountain Seed Foundation, and it’s kind of like, well, I guess we’re going to do this now.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (20:16)
Mm-hmm.

Lindsey (20:33)
Like I never thought that I would, but once you

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (20:33)
Like I kind of have to. Yeah.

Lindsey (20:36)
like just kind of do it and try, like you surprise yourself with what you can do.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (20:41)
Not that it’s

the same, we have, you know, the ropes courses and stuff, you know, through the trees and everything. And you’re still connected. Right. And so it’s the same thing. Like, you’re so, like, intimidated by it. And then you’re like, wait, I could like literally just hang here. Nothing’s going to happen to me.

Lindsey (20:46)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yes. Yeah, you’ll be okay. I just did

one of these with my kids back in Garmish. We just went for a visit. ⁓ And so there’s a ropes course like that there. And I had never done it before. Because like I said, I was too scared when I lived there. ⁓ But I took the kids by myself and we were having fun. But then it came to this one part where you literally just had to jump off a platform. I was like, I don’t want to do it. I don’t want to do it. My kids were like,

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (21:04)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah, it’s intimidating.

Guess.

Lindsey (21:22)
coaching me, you can do it mom, just jump, just jump. So they counted me down and finally I did it. It is. Yes.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (21:24)
It’s just like, again, it’s that mental, right? Because like, you know, you’re safe, like, like they’re not

going to make you do anything that’s going to hurt you. But it’s just that mental, like, can I mentally force myself off this platform?

Lindsey (21:33)
Right. No.

Yes, it’s the

mental block. It’s the mental challenges that are the hardest.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (21:43)
Yeah, well

the Via Ferrata sounds fun though, especially the Hut to Hut. I think I would enjoy that and I would have to… I could easily convince my son to do it, but my daughter I think might… would need convincing for that. ⁓

Lindsey (21:46)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, it’s definitely

something I think you need to like work up to like you wouldn’t want to embark on that without like, you know, having some, yeah, yeah, some experience first to make sure you’re ready for it.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (21:59)
Mm-hmm.

any kind of training.

Yeah.

I do appreciate your time. I know you’re busy with the kids and everything and the time difference. I know it’s almost like dinner time for you. So I’m going to, you know, wrap up with this question. But if you could only do one kind of hike for the rest of your life, would you do a hike that leads to a view like an overlook hike or would you do hikes that lead to waterfalls?

Lindsey (22:11)
you

Mm-hmm.

Hmm. I would probably pick a view. think I would pick. Yeah. Yeah. That’s hard though. Yeah, I would, I would take the view where I can sit on the patio with my Aperol spritz. That’s, that’s the one I’m going for.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (22:31)
View, okay. Well, it’s because you have restaurants up there.

I mean, I’d do a view too if I was like, well, I’m gonna climb up there, get the view, get a, you know, yeah, get your Aperol spritz and then take the gondola back down. I’d be good to go. I don’t blame you for that though. I don’t blame you for that. ⁓ Again, thank you. And before I let you go, cause you are on social media. and do you have a website? Yes.

Lindsey (22:45)
Ha

Yeah, that’s right.

Yes. It’s

the same name, Abroadwife.com.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (23:06)
Abroadwife.com for your website and then you are Abroadwife on Instagram.

Lindsey (23:08)
Yep. At my Broadway fear.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (23:11)
Well, Lindsay, again, thank you so much for your time talking to me about hiking in Europe and all your adventures. also your photos are so incredible, too. Like, I love all the the scenery that you post on Instagram. when your posts come up, I’m like, where is she now? Like, what is she doing? So so please please keep posting for people like me so I can live vicariously. Yeah.

Lindsey (23:14)
Thanks, Lauren.

Thank you.

thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah. Okay. I’ll go edit some photos right now.

Lauren – Her Side Of The Trail (23:36)
But thank

you again and and yeah and have have fun adventuring and if you do that via ferrata I’m gonna be very jealous. So Yep.

Lindsey (23:45)
Thanks, Lauren. Good to talk to

you.